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Angry as Hell...

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Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe - 27 Oct 2006 20:20 GMT
And I can't let it go.  I've been trying, and trying, and trying, but I
just can't let go of it.

Every month, when YD gets hormonal and moody, she'll pick a fight with
me.  I tend to try to *not* fight, but I stand by what I say.  When
these things happened in the past, Chewy would get upset and yell at
both of us.  He's not doing that this time, but he's also not backing
me by telling her when I give her an instruction, she's to do it.

This particular episode started last night.  She was already feeling
out of sorts.  She came into the kitchen and asked if there was
anything she could do to help me.  I asked her to clean some potatoes
for me to cut up for mashing.  She did that, then asked if there was
anything else.

I asked her to sweep the floors.  Her response - "I did that this
morning."

"Well, sweetie, there are still things on the floor that have been
there for days."

"But I swept this morning!"

"Well, then, you didn't do a good job, or there wouldn't still be
things on the floor that have been there for days.  You need to make
sure you get everything."

"<YS> doesn't have to sweep the floors!"

"He does when I ask him to, but right now, he's outside helping Dad."

"I do EVERYTHING around here."

"No you don't.  <list of things the rest of us do>"

<begin temper tantrum>

<sigh>

She's now saying that I insulted her by saying that YS does more than
she does.  Then she changed it to my insulting her by saying that YS
feeds the sheep, goats, cattle, and horses, when I *know* she can't
because she has an anxiety attack when they all surround her if she
feeds them.  OI!  As if!  She knows that *I* get anxiety attacks if
they all surround *me*.  Why would I feel she's "less than" or anything
like that just because she also has anxiety attacks????  She also knows
that when she's having an anxiety attack out in the paddocks, I push
mine down long enough to go to where she is, work her through hers, and
get her back to the house.

And then, to top it all off, when she decided later on to continue
being disrespectful and to add being disobedient (she'd gone and laid
down in her bed, with the light off, and I'd asked her to please get
out of bed so that she wouldn't fall asleep before eating, making sure
I explained *why* I was asking her to get out of bed - she has a habit
of falling asleep when she lays down to think), getting really nasty in
her responses to me, I asked Chewy to deal with it because I was
getting to a point where I'd not be able to continue dealing with it
calmly.

And he refused.  Said I was out of line.

And now he's upset with me because I'm still fuming over all this....
plus the fact that he was yelling at me this morning when we were
trying to deal with a bull that had gotten out.

Aaaaaaaarrrrrggggghhhhhhh!!!

I don't know how to deal with this.  I don't know how to let go of it.
I'm sooooooooo tired of bending, twisting, and turning myself inside
out in order for us to get past things like this.  I'm getting to where
I don't even know who I am anymore.  I feel like I've changed *so* much
of me to try to make them happy that I'm losing myself.

But how do I get that across to them in a way they'll understand?  In a
way where they'll work with me, instead of fighting me?

All those thoughts from April - back.  Only calmer.  More scary.  Only
I'm not afraid of them this time.  It's no longer a "What if I do?" or
a "Why don't I just?"  It's just pictures in my head of doing it.

How do I deal with this in a way that gets us all past this, to a
better, healthier way of dealing with things?

Kitten
Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe - 27 Oct 2006 20:44 GMT
Sorry about the multiple posts.  Google got stuck and said to click
Reload.... which I did.  :-/

Why is it that some days, life just sucks?

Kitten

> And I can't let it go.  I've been trying, and trying, and trying, but I
> just can't let go of it.
> <snipped>
Dizzysmamma - 27 Oct 2006 23:29 GMT
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Kitten}}}}}}}}}}}}}}  For now just breath and walk away.  If
you have to get in the truck and drive away for awhile do that.  Go get your
hair cut, buy an ice cream, go to a movie, do something silly just for you.
Don't tell anyone where you're going.  Just go.  Stay gone for a few hours.
Keep your cell phone off unless you want to make a call.  When you get back
give YD some aleve and then just ignore her.  Totally.  Do only for yourself
for the rest of the day and maybe even tomorrow.  Basically go on strike for
24 hours.  Anybody asks you for something tell them you're on strike and
walk away.  Don't offer explanations, reasons or excuses.  Let them get just
the smallest idea of what their life would be like without you to take
advantage of.  As for the other.  Call a hotline.  I'm not saying that
lightly or casually.  Find someone totally unattached to you or your family
and just unload on them.  You need help both physically and emotionally and
you're not getting it at home.  If you want you can email me at my "handle"
@ clear wire . net.

Angela
Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe - 27 Oct 2006 23:35 GMT
> {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Kitten}}}}}}}}}}}}}}  For now just breath and walk away.  If
> you have to get in the truck and drive away for awhile do that.  Go get your
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> you're not getting it at home.  If you want you can email me at my "handle"
> @ clear wire . net.

Thanks, Angela.  There's dinner in the freezer from a few weeks back
when I intentionally made extra just in case there was a day we needed
something or I didn't feel like cooking.  They can heat that up for
their dinner.

YD got off work half an hour ago.  I didn't go to pick her up.  Chewy's
still helping friends on their farm, and I don't know what arrangements
they made.  They may have decided for her to go hangout at TF's house
until Chewy's done.  <shrug>  Trying not to worry about it.

Kitten
nanner - 28 Oct 2006 00:31 GMT
> And I can't let it go.  I've been trying, and trying, and trying, but I
> just can't let go of it.
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> things on the floor that have been there for days.  You need to make
> sure you get everything."

holy crow - as a teen that was offering to HELP and did one chore and was on
to the next *I* would've flipped out too, especially with PMS lol

how about just saying "they need to be swept again"

seems like you picked this fight with her! you must know her triggers by
now, no? Sorry you had a crappy night.

> "<YS> doesn't have to sweep the floors!"
>
[quoted text clipped - 54 lines]
>
> Kitten
Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe - 29 Oct 2006 17:22 GMT
> > And I can't let it go.  I've been trying, and trying, and trying, but I
> > just can't let go of it.
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
> seems like you picked this fight with her! you must know her triggers by
> now, no? Sorry you had a crappy night.

Excuse me?  Mind telling me just *how* I picked a fight with her?

Also, mind telling me how to get her to SWEEP THE DAMN FLOOR that is
STILL not swept????  That was Thursday evening, and this is SUNDAY, for
pete's sake!

Why the HELL am I expected to be here for her and everyone else, to
notice what they need done and do it, to make sure the things that are
important to them are taken care of, to make sure the things that are
bugging them are dealt with, ...

And I can't get anyone to SWEEP THE DAMN FLOOR!!!

It's not like this is something that I bug them about.  I ask them
about once a week to please get the floor done and to do a good job of
it.  When they actually start sweeping and are surprised at the amount
of dirt, I point out that *that* is why I ask them to please sweep the
floor on a daily basis - WITHOUT me having to say anything to them
about it.

They want ME to do it all, to not feel frustrated at them wanting ME to
do it all, and to not mention to them that they want ME to do it all.
If I, heaven forbid!!! ask that the floors are swept, the dishes
washed, the kitchen cleaned, or the laundry done, I'm the bitch from
hell.

Excuse me while I puke.

Kitten
nanner - 29 Oct 2006 20:11 GMT
>> > And I can't let it go.  I've been trying, and trying, and trying, but I
>> > just can't let go of it.
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
>
> Excuse me?  Mind telling me just *how* I picked a fight with her?

did you read my post? i told you *exactly* how you picked a fight with her.
The point was you wanted the floor swept right? One bit of info I don't
have: Did she or didn't she sweep in the morning? She said she did and you
told her she didn't do it good enough. If the end result you wanted was a
swept floor, not swept by you, then you could've said that it was a messy
day and needs sweeping again instead of telling her she didn't do it good
enough.

I took a quick glance at som eother responses and seems i am not alone in
suggesting you take a more sensitive approach.

I was a teenager once and if I was treated that way I would've said "then
sweep it yourself"

> Also, mind telling me how to get her to SWEEP THE DAMN FLOOR that is
> STILL not swept????  That was Thursday evening, and this is SUNDAY, for
> pete's sake!

ask nicely?

> Why the HELL am I expected to be here for her and everyone else, to
> notice what they need done and do it, to make sure the things that are
> important to them are taken care of, to make sure the things that are
> bugging them are dealt with, ...
>
> And I can't get anyone to SWEEP THE DAMN FLOOR!!!

Did you tell them all that they don't do it good enough?

> It's not like this is something that I bug them about.  I ask them
> about once a week to please get the floor done and to do a good job of
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Kitten
Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe - 29 Oct 2006 22:05 GMT
> >> > And I can't let it go.  I've been trying, and trying, and trying, but I
> >> > just can't let go of it.
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
> day and needs sweeping again instead of telling her she didn't do it good
> enough.

There was very obvious trash on the floor, things that she and I both
know she didn't sweep up.  As for whether or not she swept it earlier
in the day, I don't know.  Sometimes she's being honest with me,
sometimes she lies to try to get out of doing something she doesn't
want to do.

> I took a quick glance at som eother responses and seems i am not alone in
> suggesting you take a more sensitive approach.

More sensitive?  If I get any more sensitive with her, she'll *never*
be asked to do anything.

> I was a teenager once and if I was treated that way I would've said "then
> sweep it yourself"

If I'd left a job undone, or had refused to do something I was
instructed to do, I'd have been slapped silly.

> > Also, mind telling me how to get her to SWEEP THE DAMN FLOOR that is
> > STILL not swept????  That was Thursday evening, and this is SUNDAY, for
> > pete's sake!
>
> ask nicely?

I do.  Over and over and over again.  When you're asking someone to do
something that needs to be done, where's *your* limit on asking enough
times?

> > Why the HELL am I expected to be here for her and everyone else, to
> > notice what they need done and do it, to make sure the things that are
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Did you tell them all that they don't do it good enough?

If they've said they *just* swept the floor and there are still things
on it, I say, "You missed a spot."  Do *you* accept a job that's just
as undone at the end as it was before it was begun?

Kitten
LaTreen Washington - 29 Oct 2006 20:35 GMT
If you talk to them the way you write to us, it is bitchy.

You're a mother - take care of your kids.

Bed - made - lie.

> Excuse me?  Mind telling me just *how* I picked a fight with her?
>
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
> Kitten
Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe - 30 Oct 2006 06:46 GMT
> If you talk to them the way you write to us, it is bitchy.

Considering I don't *normally* write that way...

> You're a mother - take care of your kids.

I do.  And I do a damn good job of it, too.  But ya know, I've got
teenagers.  They're good kids, but they have their days.  And I have
mine, too.  C'est la vie.

> Bed - made - lie.

Yep.  See who stands behind you next time someone's jumping your case
when he shouldn't be.

Kitten
LaTreen Washington - 30 Oct 2006 13:42 GMT
Your post WAS cranky.

But from what you said about a lot of other things, you seem to have a lot
on your plate.

> Yep.  See who stands behind you next time someone's jumping your case
> when he shouldn't be.
>
> Kitten

You're right. I rechecked my "a.shole list" and you ARE NOT on it.

You DID stand up for me and I do appreciate that.

* * I apologize for coming down too hard on you. * *

One value I DO treasure from my father is the concept "A job worth doing is
a job worth doing well".

I also learned from Dr. Robert A. Cook http://walkwiththeking.org/, that you
should do work for God/Jesus, not yourself or the boss. I kept that in mind
when I had to clean a toilet. I shined that sucker up so Jesus would've been
happy to sit on it.

Perhaps you can convice your child of the value and satisfaction from a job
well done.

Best Regards to You and Yours,
LaTreen Washington
Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe - 30 Oct 2006 16:38 GMT
> Your post WAS cranky.

Heh.  My post was desperate.  I was in tears.  I had noone to talk to.
There's not a single person IRL, other than Chewy, who realizes the
pressure I feel some days, because I can't talk to them about it.  And
that particular day, Chewy wasn't exactly approachable.  <shrug>  It
happens.

> But from what you said about a lot of other things, you seem to have a lot
> on your plate.

We each have our own portion to deal with in life.  And sometimes it's
not easy.

> > Yep.  See who stands behind you next time someone's jumping your case
> > when he shouldn't be.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> * * I apologize for coming down too hard on you. * *

Gratzi.

> One value I DO treasure from my father is the concept "A job worth doing is
> a job worth doing well".
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Perhaps you can convice your child of the value and satisfaction from a job
> well done.

I'm working on it.  Seems that she does a *wonderful* job, at work.
LOL... I keep getting praise from the kids' employers for raising
children who actually know how to work and do so with a good attitude.
They save the not wanting to do a thorough job for when they get home.

I think they may get the picture a bit more now.  Since Chewy's been
laid off, he and I are both trying to find anything we can do to help
make his unemployment check stretch to cover the bills.  Seems the
folks at church may want me to back more cinnamon rolls for them, for
the individual families.  And there's a lady who wants to pay me to
make kefir for her.  That would help some.  Chewy's doing a bit of day
work.  Now if we can get the kids on board for helping a bit more
around the house and/or a bit more with the shared bills...

Know anyone in Texas who'd like to buy a few head of Irish Dexters?
They're good cows, but we've got to cut back on the feed bill, and it
takes longer to raise calves to butchering size than it does chickens,
goats, and lambs.  Not good for the cost:benefit ratio.  :-/  Might
keep one of the fresh cows for a milker, though.  I've a friend who's
got a hankering for fresh cow's milk.  Just don't know if she's pay
enough to cover feeding the cow.  But I could make butter and cheese to
sell to our meat customers.

<sigh>  We'll get it figured out.

Kitten
toto - 28 Oct 2006 01:43 GMT
>I asked her to sweep the floors.  Her response - "I did that this
>morning."
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
><begin temper tantrum>

As difficult as this is, I think a different approach acknowledging
her feelings might defuse this.  If you want to *win* the power
struggle, it's not going to happen.

Try:

>I asked her to sweep the floors.  Her response - "I did that this
>morning."
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>"But I swept this morning!"

Oh.  Does the floor look clean now?

It's hard to get all of the grit.  What do you think we can do about
that?  

>"<YS> doesn't have to sweep the floors!"
>
>"He does when I ask him to, but right now, he's outside helping Dad."
>
>"I do EVERYTHING around here."

It sure feels like you do alot.  

Her answers will probably be much less tantrummy because she will feel
like you heard her feelings.

--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits
Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe - 29 Oct 2006 01:53 GMT
<snipped>

> As difficult as this is, I think a different approach acknowledging
> her feelings might defuse this.  If you want to *win* the power
> struggle, it's not going to happen.

I don't want to win any power struggle.  She's 17yo.  I want her to pay
attention to how she's doing things and to do a good job.  I want her
to behave responsibly and respectfully.  And I want her to stop trying
to guilt-trip me whenever she's in a bad mood.

That's all.

Kitten
Mermaid - 28 Oct 2006 03:44 GMT
> And I can't let it go.  I've been trying, and trying, and trying, but I
> just can't let go of it.
[quoted text clipped - 81 lines]
>
> Kitten

One thing that I can think of is when she is hormonal and like this and
you know it don't argue with her... tell her point blank what you want,
walk away and let there be a consequence for her not doing what you
asked.  SHort and sweet.  I know with my kiddos if I argue and go on it
escalates and I know it's not about what I've asked it's about them
being out of sorts and it won't work to discuss.

It is important though for chewy to back you up but sometimes that won't
happen.  You need more sticking power of your own.

HTH

Anni
Marc - 29 Oct 2006 22:30 GMT
<snip>
"Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe"
> And I can't let it go.  I've been trying, and trying, and trying, but I
> just can't let go of it.
Keep trying, you're only hurting yourself by keeping it going.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> Every month, when YD gets hormonal and moody, she'll pick a fight with
> me.  I tend to try to *not* fight, but I stand by what I say.  When
> these things happened in the past, Chewy would get upset and yell at
> both of us.  He's not doing that this time, but he's also not backing
> me by telling her when I give her an instruction, she's to do it.
ugh, hate that

> This particular episode started last night.  She was already feeling
> out of sorts.  She came into the kitchen and asked if there was
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> things on the floor that have been there for days.  You need to make
> sure you get everything."

<snip>
> How do I deal with this in a way that gets us all past this, to a
> better, healthier way of dealing with things?

Don't mention any of the other children, it is just about her and you and
the floor.
Pick your battles, don't make how clean the floor is an issue on those
weeks.
Make sure you and Chewy talk about something else before going to bed, so
that the fight is not the first thing on people's minds in the morning.
Don't take the fight into the next day if possible. Not easy, but not worth
it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Marc
Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe - 30 Oct 2006 06:43 GMT
> And I can't let it go.  I've been trying, and trying, and trying, but I
> just can't let go of it.
>
> Every month, when YD gets hormonal and moody, she'll pick a fight with
> me.  I tend to try to *not* fight, but I stand by what I say.
<snipped>

A bit of clarification happened on some of this tonight while I was
cooking dinner.  YD came into the kitchen to talk.  On one hand, she's
having a bit of an issue with the thought of impending nuptuals - 4
years down the road.  Daunting thought for us all.  On the other hand,
she's having issues with her anxiety issues.

Specifically, to her, being asked to sweep the floor the other night
while YS was out feeding the animals represented *to* *HER* what she
perceived as her lesser ability to do things, rather than a *different*
ability.  We talked a bit about both of us having that anxiety issue
when surrounded by the larger livestock, all clamouring to be fed.
We're going to work on helping each other with the panic attacks, which
translates to her trying to *notice* when I'm having a panic attack so
she can pitch in to help with anything that's overwhelming me while
it's going on.  We were able to come up with a few practical things to
help with some of her anxiety issues, such as the
mastiff-rottweiler-chow mix sleeping in her bedroom at night.  (She
does anyway, but YD didn't realize it.)

And she's promised me (once again) that next month, she'll try not to
do this again.

Why is it that I'm glad we don't have a half dozen teenage girls living
here???

Kitten
nanner - 30 Oct 2006 12:31 GMT
>> And I can't let it go.  I've been trying, and trying, and trying, but I
>> just can't let go of it.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> years down the road.  Daunting thought for us all.  On the other hand,
> she's having issues with her anxiety issues.

what does that mean? YD is engaged and has a date set for 4 years from now?

> Specifically, to her, being asked to sweep the floor the other night
> while YS was out feeding the animals represented *to* *HER* what she
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> mastiff-rottweiler-chow mix sleeping in her bedroom at night.  (She
> does anyway, but YD didn't realize it.)

sounds like a cute little pup (yikes)

> And she's promised me (once again) that next month, she'll try not to
> do this again.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Kitten
Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe - 30 Oct 2006 13:38 GMT
> >> And I can't let it go.  I've been trying, and trying, and trying, but I
> >> just can't let go of it.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> what does that mean? YD is engaged and has a date set for 4 years from now?

Yep.  She's 17 and engaged.  They're planning on getting married after
she turns 21.

> > Specifically, to her, being asked to sweep the floor the other night
> > while YS was out feeding the animals represented *to* *HER* what she
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> sounds like a cute little pup (yikes)

LOL.... she's an absolute sweetheart.  She's 10yo and the "guardian of
the house."  That's her job, and she's good at it.

Kitten
Marc - 30 Oct 2006 12:36 GMT
<snip>
"Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe"

>> And I can't let it go.  I've been trying, and trying, and trying, but I
>> just can't let go of it.
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> Why is it that I'm glad we don't have a half dozen teenage girls living
> here???
lol, yes. It sounds like as close as you're going to get to an apology. And
as I try to keep reminding myself, it takes a while between realising what
is wrong and having the wherewithal to implement the strategies to cope with
it. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ not easy, I know.
Marc
Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe - 30 Oct 2006 13:41 GMT
> <snip>
> "Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe"
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
> is wrong and having the wherewithal to implement the strategies to cope with
> it. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ not easy, I know.

Any time she gets around to actually thinking about why she's acting
out and working on it, I'm happy.  We're a looooong way from her 12th
b-day, when she proceeded to tell me that we would now begin taking her
anywhere she wanted to go, at whatever time she wanted to be there, and
it was none of our business who she was hanging out with.  Needless to
say, *that* didn't fly over well.

Kitten
toto - 30 Oct 2006 17:02 GMT
>Any time she gets around to actually thinking about why she's acting
>out and working on it, I'm happy.  We're a looooong way from her 12th
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>Kitten

That's good.

I would still suggest though that when she does get hormonal, you do
what you can to react sympathetically rather than tell her she did not
do a good enough job on something.   I think you will find that if you
change your reaction, she *will* change her pattern.  It just takes
time.  

--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits
Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe - 30 Oct 2006 17:09 GMT
> >Any time she gets around to actually thinking about why she's acting
> >out and working on it, I'm happy.  We're a looooong way from her 12th
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> change your reaction, she *will* change her pattern.  It just takes
> time.

I usually start with, "Well, it need to be done again."  I don't
tolerate the kids arguing back with me very well.  We had a bit of a
discussion about that this morning at the breakfast table, with Chewy
being the one to push the issue with the kids.  "When Mom tells you to
do something, do it.  No arguing.  No trying to come up with a
different way to do it.  Just do it.  The first time she tells you."
He was actually talking to YS, but when I mentioned that *both* need to
do so, he pulled YD into it, too.

Kitten
toto - 30 Oct 2006 17:21 GMT
>I usually start with, "Well, it need to be done again."

Instead of starting with this, start with *It's hard when something
has to be done twice.*   Get her thinking about the fact that if she
did it right the first time, it might not need to be done again.

Or, say *sometimes, floors get dirty rather quickly, don't they?*
And let her think about the fact that sweeping is a chore that has to
be done fairly often because things do end up on the floor again even
after it's been swept once.

The problem with your reaction is that a teenager (even one that is
not hormonal) needs to have their feelings validated and as the
grownup you are the one who can control your reaction better.

--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits
 
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