Family Forum / Pregnancy / Pregnancy / October 2005

Why ask? As you can tell, she is incapable of holding a conversation.

Regards...

    You're telling your spouse it's your way or
the highway.  If she doesn't give in to your demands,
you will not support her.  Seems pretty clear cut to
me.

Best wishes,
Ericka

She's inevitably going to be burdened by her actions regardless of what you
do, and she'll find that out once the baby is born. You have it in your
power to make that burden bearable, but a learning experience for her, but
it sounds as though you're giving ultimatums.

See, it's that kind of attitude which is holding you back. I don't believe
it is possible to pronounce a 17 year old a lost cause. She may be lazy,
irresponsible and disrespectful now, but I don't think you can predict the
rest of her life based on that. She's going through adolescence _and_
pregnancy - I wouldn't expect normal behaviour from her right now. I'm not
surprised that there is no love lost between the two of you, it sounds as
though you have given up on her entirely.

You're giving ultimatums, you're giving your opinion on how you think her
wife should raise her child, yet you don't want to accept responsibility for
her daughter's welfare. Either she's your daughter, by marriage if not
blood, and you should be treating her as such - or she's not your
responsibility at all, and you should stay out of it entirely.

You've given up on her, so again, I'm not surprised.

Some things just need time, to allow people to mature, to diffuse the
situation. I'd be interested to know exactly what you're doing/saying to try
to help, because I have an idea in my head...

Yet you don't sound accountable. You can choose your friends, but not your
relatives - but in this case, you did choose your relatives. I'll say again,
your step-daughter was part of your wife's life when you married her. Don't
make your wife choose, because you will lose every time.
You asked for suggestions here, and I think you received some good advice.
You came into this group, I believe, looking for people to tell you that you
are right. Instead of getting antsy with the regular posters here, perhaps
re-read your OP. You could have better phrased it, that you were looking for
support for the decision that you had already made. I can't stand it when
people ask for 'advice' or 'suggestions' when they really are just looking
for moral support. Either is fine - but be honest about what you hope to
achieve by asking your question.

Your wife.

My relatives are always a part of my family.  We believe strongly in the
bonds of extended family and that is a family value/culture I have grown up
with.  I've seen it in action.  I have 7 living aunts or uncles.  I haven't
seen some of them in years.  I'm sure I could call any one of them up if I
was having a crisis or emergency and get significant support/help from them.
Of course I would also be there for them but their own family networks are
much larger and so while I would offer support, it would not be at
significant sacrifice.  I count one cousin, one cousins child (is that a
second cousin?) my brother (his wife and two kids), my BIL's (no kids), MIL,
one of my aunts, my dad, all as people I would sacrifice considerably for in
a time of serious need.  I'm not particularly close to my dh's family but
since I'm married to him I count the people he is close to as those I'd
sacrifice for as well.  In all of that one's children remain at the top of
our list of things to protect.  Of course maintaining a strong marriage is
important to children so that is a priority.  When push comes to shove
though, we do what we believe is best for our kids.

I'm guessing you did not grow up with that same family value/culture.  There
is a canyon  so big separating the two it is impossible to see across.  I
simply can't imagine not having it and it seems you can't wrap your head
around my way of thinking either.

That doesn't mean that I'd do anything they asked.  I'd have to use my
judgment in what was right for them in the long haul but I would be willing
to sacrifice (things like time, money, energy, space in my home, etc.) for
them.  I know my mother refused to help in the way that was requested more
then once because she felt it was the wrong thing to do.  She offered
alternative help that she felt was more appropriate.  That is OK.  I'm not
talking about being a door mat.

Family/relatives are pretty much interchangable for me. I did not marry
my mother-in-law, but when she needed help, because I love my husband,
I stepped up to the plate. To the tune of driving her to all her
appointments, running her errands and visiting with her four days a
week. My husband did not marry my daughter, his stepdaughter, but he
supports her, nevertheless, and is shocked that *I* would consider
charging her rent when she is of age if I deem it appropriate or
necessary. (I lived with my parents as a  young single mother and paid
rent and contributed to the food budget--otherwise I would not have
felt like an adult and would have found it intolerable to live there.)

Honestly, if my daughter got pregnant as a teen and decided to keep the
baby and my husband reacted the way you are reacting, I'd show him the
curb even though I love him very, very much. "Protecting your family"
is meaningless if you and your wife are not working together as a team,
and crying, "But she isn't working with me" doesn't cut it.

Your wife has been a parent longer than you have. Her daughter has a
prior claim. 17 year olds are often little s**theads who don't know
which end is up.... I certainly was, and so was my sister. But we
improved with age. You don't get to stop parenting just because some
legal limit is reached--my younger daughter has a genetic condition
which *might* mean that she is not able to be independant until she's
older than 18--I'm not going to show her the door because the law says
she's legally an adult.

Money: You probably won't need to put a whole lot of money toward the
baby if you are in the US. She needs a place to live and she needs
people around her who are not causing more chaos in her life than she
herself is generating. Set limits...of course! But that baby IS your
family, or should be. If my husband ever tried to say that my grandbaby
was not HIS family.... <shakes head> Let's just say I'm glad that I
married a man who will step up to the plate and considers my family his
family. He considers my mother and father to be his family. He
considers my sister and her husband to be his family. And he
*especially* considers my daughter to be his family. So personally, if
he started making pronouncements about how he wasn't going to allow
"another family" to live under his roof.... I'd suggest he find another
roof. Fortunately, I know my husband and he's less likely to set limits
about such things than I am. We talked about the what-ifs of such a
situation before we were married, actually.

Should you let your stepdaughter run roughshod over the family and dump
the baby on you without concern for your convenience or needs? NO!
Should you show her the curb? Probably not. Setting limits in
cooperation with your wife: okay. Deciding that you don't have to
cooperate with your wife and get to decide all the limits? Not okay.

Here's how it looked when I lived with my parents after having my
daughter at age 21:

I was on welfare, food stamps and medical. Welfare was more generous
back then, and didn't tell me to go get a job until my baby was about
18 months old. Welfare will tell your stepdaughter to get a job when
her baby is about 3 months old, I believe. During the time I lived with
my parents, I had income from child support and welfare combined of
about $450 per month, plus food stamps. I bought my own food and food
for my daughter with that. I paid about $200 per month to my parents
(far below market rent for 1 room in a house) and they tucked $50 per
month aside in a savings account out of that money. When I moved out,
they gave me that money to help pay my first and last in my own
apartment.

Childcare was neither assumed nor automatic. They often helped if I
asked, changing a diaper here, playing with the baby so I could get a
shower there, and if I had a specific training-related thing to do, I
could ask them but did often have to find other arrangements for
childcare. Mom was paid by the state to babysit when she was doing a
large amount of babysitting so I could get training or a job--she was
NOT free and not 'on demand'. She did not want me to  "take her for
granted" and that was fine by me. I did often have other childcare
providers. When my daughter got older and easier, they volunteered to
have her spend the night to give me a break on a regular basis, not for
pay.

As a result, I was not a "child" living in their home, but another
adult. They were very clear about it being their house and their rules,
and I respected that. I contributed to the family, did chores, helped
with meals, etc. As a result, I was able to live with them until my
section 8 came up and I was able to get a place of my own. I was there
for about 22 months, having moved in when my daughter was 10 months
old.

As for the father... you can spout all you want about "father's
responsibility" but it won't make him take it. Yeah, he should pay
child support, and maybe he will. He should probably be willing to
support your stepdaughter and his child, but just because he "should"
doesnt' mean he "will" and if you want to talk about other people
making decisions that affect your family, he's the one to get pissed at
as much as anyone, IMO. He should have an active part in the child's
life and maybe he will or maybe he won't. But that baby NEEDS a good
male role model.

Living with my parents and maintaining close relationships with them
through the rocky first years of my daughter's life gave my daughter
stability she otherwise would not have had. She *knows* my father loves
her. She *knows* that her father's fecklessness is not her fault. She
*knows* that no matter what, her family, ALL her family, including my
husband, is on her side.

There's a whole lot of research and talk about children of single
parents and children in blended families...and there's a lot of
evidence that having a strong male role model in childhood and the teen
years can be a huge factor in how well kids weather the stresses of
being in blended/broken families. Dads *are* important.

For my daughter, when I got pregnant young, my dad was that person for
her. As she enters her teen years, my dad *and* her stepdad are that
for her.

You have an opportunity here, to make a difference in a child's life.
If you "stand on" your dubious principles and "insist" that you are not
"family" to that child... you will lose a valuable opportunity.

See, babies are special. They're a gift. Grandbabies, especially so.
Even stepgrandbabies. You just have to open your heart to it. Will it
be an inconvenience? Oh, definitely. Will there be difficulty? Of
course. Will it create chaos? Yup. But your stepdaughter is going to
have a baby. And babies, honestly, are better than puppies and kittens
and christmas all put together. GRANDbabies are better than regular
babies, too, because with grandbabies, you get to love them, spoil
them, play with them, and give them *back* to their parents when
they're done, even if their parents are immature 18 year olds who
haven't figured out which end is up or why waiting for the good things
in life makes the good things better.

If you open your heart to the baby, you will probably save your
marriage. It will not cause you financial ruin--babies do not have to
be expensive, and most of the expense should be managed through WIC,
food stamps and medical assistance. Your step daughter will be able to
get a lot of things at garage sales, as gifts, donations, etc. Instead
of telling her to hit the street, you should be encouraging her to
breastfeed (cheaper) and cloth diaper (also cheaper). Instead of
telling her she can't live with you, you should be talking about ways
of making sure that she takes the privilege seriously and treats your
home with respect.

This is your wife's grandchild. It could also be yours. My mom always
says if she'd known how much fun grandchildren could be, she'd have had
them first. Lucky you, that's almost what you get to do.

As to the original question of "how far down the line do you go".... It
all depends on the situation.

Yes, there ARE situations when you should show a young single parent
the curb. If she's doing drugs. Being dangerous to the house or to you
guys. Blatant and aggressive disruptive behavior (NOT "getting
pregnant" but "playing loud music at 3 am and throwing parties") after
clear boundaries are set.

If I had treated my parents with open hostility and anger *after* they
opened their home to me and my infant, I would have been stupid *and*
deserved a boot to the rear. But if they'd called me a slut and told me
to get out, they would have deserved every bit of my anger. As it was,
they welcomed me home with open arms, and as a result we have a
fantastic adult relationship now, 12 years later. And my daughter has a
wonderful relationship with them that most grandparents don't get.

Jenrose

This same sentiment applies to your wife, sweetie.

Nan

<agsf_57@yahoo.com> wrote in message

I think you are wrong about that agsf. Most women who are mothers will fight
to their death for their kids. Ask your wife who she would choose, you may
be surprised at her answer.

I have to somewhat disagree with you. Although the family as a whole
should be taken into consideration, the order that I listed should be
followed.

I'm sure he supported her when she was younger.

It all depends on the situation. In this situation I have to side with
Chris.

I also suspect that in your culture, young women don't sleep around and
get pregnant either. It's easy to confuse westernized points of views
with your own, but you will have to acknowledge the differences and
understand that these differences is what makes your culture thrive
while the westerners decline.

I'm sure he supported her and accepted her when she was a child.
However, at this point, she is an adult who shares different moral
views than his. He should not be expected to take on the responsibility
and burden that she has created.

I've been called a lot of insulting things online, but this remark tops
all of them. ;)

Regards...