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Family Forum / Parenting / Single Parents / March 2004Empowering boys
I know alot of empowering young women and girlpower and I have read many periodicals and books on the subject. Now, I am searching for empowering young men and boypower. The search is very skim. I have read, Bad Boys and Raising Boys, but there is just not as much out there on this subject as far as programs to help boys, besides YMCA. I know there is boy scouts and girl scouts, etc, but they are something that is not close by in our area. I am going to be getting some ideas together to begin a program within the school system that empowers our young men. I have been reading a lot of stuff to present to some rape crisis volunteers on the history of rape. This is what got me to think about how men are raised to commit such a horrible act. Then I think of their home life, etc. and it is a serious factor? What do you guys think? I will be going to school (senior highs) and speaking to young women about rape prevention, but just what can I tell the boys? Sorry about the long rant. Thanks. V The teacher will appear when the pupil is ready. > I know alot of empowering young women and girlpower and I have read many > periodicals and books on the subject. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > V > The teacher will appear when the pupil is ready. Men are already empowered in a different way. "Female empowerment" is more or less "think only about yourself and step over anyone who gets in your way". And modern female have taken to that with almost religious fervor. However, men are the complete opposite. They compromise, they are considerate, they help their fellow human beings. THIS is the true empowerment, empowerment of the soul. What women are doing is simply evil. > > I know alot of empowering young women and girlpower and I have read many > > periodicals and books on the subject. [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > considerate, they help their fellow human beings. THIS is the true > empowerment, empowerment of the soul. What women are doing is simply evil. That's sarcasm right? I coulda swore my S. Radar was blinkin... Christine > > However, men are the complete opposite. They compromise, they are > > considerate, they help their fellow human beings. THIS is the true [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Christine No Christine, that is ignorance talking. Hey, how is school going? Email me if you have done crime scene sketching. I am stuck. V Empowering boys Group: alt.support.single-parents Date: Sun, Feb 29, 2004, 1:31am (EST+5) From: vbiggs@frontiernet.net (V) V wrote; I know alot of empowering young women and girlpower and I have read many periodicals and books on the subject. Now, I am searching for empowering young men and boypower. The search is very skim. I have read, Bad Boys and Raising Boys, but there is just not as much out there on this subject as far as programs to help boys, besides YMCA. I know there is boy scouts and girl scouts, etc, but they are something that is not close by in our area. B wrote: Maybe a "Big Brothers " Program ? V wrote; I am going to be getting some ideas together to begin a program within the school system that empowers our young men. B wrote; Great Idea! I have been reading a lot of stuff to present to some rape crisis volunteers on the history of rape. This is what got me to think about how men are raised to commit such a horrible act. Then I think of their home life, etc. and it is a serious factor? What do you guys think? B wrote: This makes me think of how horrible a childs life must be to be raised with such a disposition? I know a lot of the act of rape is about the "power and control" and not the actual sexual gratification. I have heard and read that these men/boys grow up with a hatred of women or a particular woman (Mother) . I do see how poor parenting could create this behavior, but sometimes a sick mind is just a sick mind and there was no reason for it , no one to blame........... I will be going to school (senior highs) and speaking to young women about rape prevention, but just what can I tell the boys? Sorry about the long rant. Thanks. B wrote: To seek out professional help if they think it is o.k. to violate and cause such pain suffering and harm to another human being? That "NO" means "NO" and forcing beyond that point is wrong, a violent act, that is not O.K. ever. I am thinking good moral values are indeed taught at home, unfortunately many young men and women grow up without the needed guidance. Many fall through the cracks . Maybe telling the boys exactly what being raped feels like to a woman , how it destroys both body and mind and the struggle involved with healing from such a despicable act. (touchy subject) :( Bev V The teacher will appear when the pupil is ready. > Empowering boys > [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > V > The teacher will appear when the pupil is ready. Rape, unfortunately can happen to boys too. Also you have to look at the controversy in the Catholic Church and think about all the young boys that were molested. The church finally admitted it, acknowledged it. Hopefully it won't be pushed under the rug anymore. My relative was molested by his uncle when he was a little boy, and he had repressed this memory until he was in his 60'd. I can't imagine holding it in for so long. Best of luck in empowering boys! It'll help them become better fathers, uncles, cousins and sons. sg Re: Empowering boys Group: alt.support.single-parents Date: Sun, Feb 29, 2004, 1:50pm (EST+5) From: sg34@verizon.net (sg34) "Bebe lestrnge" <bebelestrnge@webtv.net> wrote in message news:10931-4041EA4D-152@storefull-3314.bay.webtv.net... sg wrote: Rape, unfortunately can happen to boys too. Also you have to look at the controversy in the Catholic Church and think about all the young boys that were molested. The church finally admitted it, acknowledged it. Hopefully it won't be pushed under the rug anymore. My relative was molested by his uncle when he was a little boy, and he had repressed this memory until he was in his 60'd. I can't imagine holding it in for so long. Best of luck in empowering boys! It'll help them become better fathers, uncles, cousins and sons. sg B wrote: My Bad........yes boys can also be victims of rape....... I apologise and yes I agree. I think I was focusing on "Rape" itself, the broader definition certainly includes the molestation of our children, which is even a more hideous moral injustice and unfortunately the perpetrators are not punished severely enough in my honest opinion..... Bev On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 13:50:44 GMT, "sg34" <sg34@verizon.net> >Rape, unfortunately can happen to boys too. Also you have to look at the >controversy in the Catholic Church and think about all the young boys that [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >sg That's an excellent point. 'Kate snip> > Best of luck in empowering boys! It'll help them become better fathers, > uncles, cousins and sons. > > sg Thank you. V > > "Bebe lestrnge" <bebelestrnge@webtv.net> wrote in message > news:10931-4041EA4D-152@storefull-3314.bay.webtv.net... > > > > Empowering boys > > > > Group: alt.support.single-parents Date: Sun, Feb 29, 2004, 1:31am > > (EST+5) From: vbiggs@frontiernet.net (V) > > > > V wrote; > > I know alot of empowering young women and girlpower and I have read many > > periodicals and books on the subject. > > Now, I am searching for empowering young men and boypower. The search is > > very skim. I have read, Bad Boys and Raising Boys, but there is just not > > as much out there on this subject as far as programs to help boys, > > besides YMCA. I know there is boy scouts and girl scouts, etc, but they > > are something that is not close by in our area. > > > > B wrote: > > Maybe a "Big Brothers " Program ? > > > > V wrote; > > I am going to be getting some ideas together to begin a program within > > the school system that empowers our young men. > > > > B wrote; > > Great Idea! > > > > V wrote: > > I have been reading a lot of stuff to present to some rape crisis > > volunteers on the history of rape. This is what got me to think about > > how men are raised to commit such a horrible act. Then I think of their > > home life, etc. and it is a serious factor? What do you guys think? > > > > > > B wrote: > > This makes me think of how horrible a childs life must be to be raised > > with such a disposition? I know a lot of the act of rape is about the > > "power and control" and not the actual sexual gratification. I have > > heard and read that these men/boys grow up with a hatred of women or a > > particular woman (Mother) . I do see how poor parenting could create > > this behavior, but sometimes a sick mind is just a sick mind and there > > was no reason for it , no one to blame........... > > > > V wrote: > > I will be going to school (senior highs) and speaking to young women > > about rape prevention, but just what can I tell the boys? Sorry about > > the long rant. > > Thanks. > > > > B wrote: > > To seek out professional help if they think it is o.k. to violate and > > cause such pain suffering and harm to another human being? That "NO" > > means "NO" and forcing beyond that point is wrong, a violent act, that > > is not O.K. ever. I am thinking good moral values are indeed taught at > > home, unfortunately many young men and women grow up without the > > needed guidance. Many fall through the cracks . > > Maybe telling the boys exactly what being raped feels like to a woman , > > how it destroys both body and mind and the struggle involved with > > healing from such a despicable act. (touchy subject) :( > > Bev > > > > V > > The teacher will appear when the pupil is ready. > > > > Rape, unfortunately can happen to boys too. Also you have to look at the > controversy in the Catholic Church and think about all the young boys that > were molested. The church finally admitted it, acknowledged it. Hopefully > it won't be pushed under the rug anymore. > > My relative was molested by his uncle when he was a little boy, and he had > repressed this memory until he was in his 60'd. I can't imagine holding it > in for so long. > > Best of luck in empowering boys! It'll help them become better fathers, > uncles, cousins and sons. Young boys can also be raped by women, and unfortunately, when those criminals become pregnant and give birth, the courts have deemed it just to rape those same victims by assessing child support too. > > sg > > On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 00:24:29 -0500, "Paul Fritz" <paulfritzREMOVEME@voyager.net> > Young boys can also be raped by women, and unfortunately, when those >criminals become pregnant and give birth, the courts have deemed it just to >rape those same victims by assessing child support too. Too bad other men, the ones in charge of courts, don't see that as punishable by law, huh? 'Kate Last time I looked, it wasn't just 'men' sitting on the bench. And before you bring up the strawman 'men make up most of the legislature' arguement........women are the voting majority. > On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 00:24:29 -0500, "Paul Fritz" > <paulfritzREMOVEME@voyager.net> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > 'Kate On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 08:56:41 -0500, "P.Fritz" <paulNOfritzSPAM@voyager.net> >Last time I looked, it wasn't just 'men' sitting on the bench. > >And before you bring up the strawman 'men make up most of the legislature' >arguement........women are the voting majority. They vote on what is put in front of them ... by a congress that is at least 80% male. 'Kate > On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 08:56:41 -0500, "P.Fritz" > <paulNOfritzSPAM@voyager.net> > >Last time I looked, it wasn't just 'men' sitting on the bench. > > > >And before you bring up the strawman 'men make up most of the legislature' > >arguement........women are the voting majority. > > They vote on what is put in front of them ... by a congress that is at > least 80% male. Same lame old feminitwit arguement.....I thought you were smarter than that. the vote that putsthe pols in office is what establishes their boting principals....or lack thereof. > > 'Kate > > Same lame old feminitwit arguement.....I thought you were smarter than >that. Geesh Paul, I mean this sincerely. You are begining to sound as shrill and repetitive as some feminist posters you dislike. You need to take a step back. Joelle The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St Augustine Joelle On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 22:22:37 -0500, "Paul Fritz" <paulfritzREMOVEME@voyager.net> > > On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 08:56:41 -0500, "P.Fritz" > > <paulNOfritzSPAM@voyager.net> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > the vote that putsthe pols in office is what establishes their boting >principals....or lack thereof. Ho hum. I state the obvious and you state... what was it. Oh yeah. Nothing of substance. That chip is affecting your ability to think rationally. > On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 22:22:37 -0500, "Paul Fritz" > <paulfritzREMOVEME@voyager.net> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > That chip is affecting your ability to think rationally. <snicker> hardly.......you didn't state the obvious, you IGNORED the obvious. You seem to be the one that has lost the rational thought ability. "As president, I will put American government and our legal system back on the side of women. I will stand up for their security, ensure their safety, support their rights, and guarantee their dignity. This nation can do no less." - John Kerry, March 8, 2003. On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 16:47:00 -0500, "P.Fritz" <paulNOfritzSPAM@voyager.net> >> On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 22:22:37 -0500, "Paul Fritz" >> <paulfritzREMOVEME@voyager.net> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] ><snicker> hardly.......you didn't state the obvious, you IGNORED the >obvious. You seem to be the one that has lost the rational thought ability. One man's opinion. >"As president, I will put American government and our legal system back on >the side of women. I will stand up for their security, ensure their safety, >support their rights, and guarantee their dignity. This nation can do no >less." - John Kerry, March 8, 2003. Yeah, well... he's a nut. 'Kate > On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 16:47:00 -0500, "P.Fritz" > <paulNOfritzSPAM@voyager.net> > > > ><'Kate> wrote in message news:1c7840t217v22ttb2ks6a1jk7roh8btq6c@4ax.com... > >> On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 22:22:37 -0500, "Paul Fritz" > >> <paulfritzREMOVEME@voyager.net> > >> > > >> > <'Kate> wrote in message > >> >news:kpf7409q6q00lobvvr23gcokfr5nbu5jlh@4ax.com... > >> > > On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 08:56:41 -0500, "P.Fritz" > >> > > <paulNOfritzSPAM@voyager.net> > >> > > >Last time I looked, it wasn't just 'men' sitting on the bench. > >> > > > > >> > > >And before you bring up the strawman 'men make up most of the > >> >legislature' > >> > > >arguement........women are the voting majority. > >> > > > >> > > They vote on what is put in front of them ... by a congress that is > >at > >> > > least 80% male. > >> > > >> > Same lame old feminitwit arguement.....I thought you were smarter than > >> >that. > >> > > >> > the vote that putsthe pols in office is what establishes their boting > >> >principals....or lack thereof. > >> > >> Ho hum. I state the obvious and you state... what was it. Oh yeah. > >> Nothing of substance. > >> > >> That chip is affecting your ability to think rationally. > > > ><snicker> hardly.......you didn't state the obvious, you IGNORED the > >obvious. You seem to be the one that has lost the rational thought ability. > > One man's opinion. One woman's opinion ;-) > > >"As president, I will put American government and our legal system back on > >the side of women. I will stand up for their security, ensure their safety, > >support their rights, and guarantee their dignity. This nation can do no > >less." - John Kerry, March 8, 2003. > > Yeah, well... he's a nut. LMAO........at least we can agree on something..............unfortunately he is not the only one of his kind passing laws and sitting on the bench > > 'Kate > On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:54:57 -0500, "Paul Fritz" <paulfritzREMOVEME@voyager.net> > LMAO........at least we can agree on something..............unfortunately >he is not the only one of his kind passing laws and sitting on the bench We agree on a number of things but we have different ways of getting there and we totally disagree on others. 'Kate > Last time I looked, it wasn't just 'men' sitting on the bench. > > And before you bring up the strawman 'men make up most of the legislature' > arguement........women are the voting majority. Regardless of who is one the bench, the fact is we like to think they are doing the right thing for the PEOPLE but they just aren't. They are about the bottom line, money. Tiffany > > Last time I looked, it wasn't just 'men' sitting on the bench. > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Tiffany What bench are you talking about? The judges or the congress who makes the laws? Curious, V > Rape, unfortunately can happen to boys too. Yes indeed. What's rape today? Drunk people having sex or people having sex and regret it later? It happens to man too. Except that no woman is send to jail for such a ridiculous crime On 1 Mar 2004 04:19:49 -0800, hahahohohehe666@hotmail.com (The Mighty Quenelle) >> Rape, unfortunately can happen to boys too. > >Yes indeed. What's rape today? >Drunk people having sex or people having sex and regret it later? >It happens to man too. Except that no woman is send to jail for such a >ridiculous crime Saying that all rapes are the result of just a little too much partying and a bad decision is a head in the sand attitude. It makes it easy to not think until it happens to someone you love. 'Kate > On 1 Mar 2004 04:19:49 -0800, hahahohohehe666@hotmail.com (The Mighty > Quenelle) [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > and a bad decision is a head in the sand attitude. It makes it easy to > not think until it happens to someone you love. So wher did he say 'ALL'..............I think the radical feminists have done more harm by broadening the definition of rape to include morning after regrets and crunkne behavior. It takes away the seriousness of those that have actually been raped. > 'Kate On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 08:59:21 -0500, "P.Fritz" <paulNOfritzSPAM@voyager.net> >> On 1 Mar 2004 04:19:49 -0800, hahahohohehe666@hotmail.com (The Mighty >> Quenelle) [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >regrets and crunkne behavior. It takes away the seriousness of those that >have actually been raped. he said: >> >Yes indeed. What's rape today? >> >Drunk people having sex or people having sex and regret it later? >> >It happens to man too. Except that no woman is send to jail for such a >> >ridiculous crime His definition of rape is (read above). In his definition, violence isn't mentioned. Force isn't mentioned. I agree with you that there is a need to differentiate between liars, people who made bad choices and people who were drugged, beaten, or held down against their will. The stigma of being accused of rape is too great to take one person's word for it. So... gosh, let's see...I know! Let's have a trial! 'Kate > On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 08:59:21 -0500, "P.Fritz" > <paulNOfritzSPAM@voyager.net> > > > ><'Kate> wrote in message news:vae6409i3j5qgho9chmfqufpjpk46mp2b6@4ax.com... > >> On 1 Mar 2004 04:19:49 -0800, hahahohohehe666@hotmail.com (The Mighty > >> Quenelle) > >> >"sg34" <sg34@verizon.net> wrote in message > >news:<U6m0c.4839$6c5.1222@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>... > >> > > >> > > >> >> Rape, unfortunately can happen to boys too. > >> > > >> >Yes indeed. What's rape today? > >> >Drunk people having sex or people having sex and regret it later? > >> >It happens to man too. Except that no woman is send to jail for such a > >> >ridiculous crime > >> > >> Saying that all rapes are the result of just a little too much partying > >> and a bad decision is a head in the sand attitude. It makes it easy to > >> not think until it happens to someone you love. > > > >So wher did he say 'ALL'..............I think the radical feminists have > >done more harm by broadening the definition of rape to include morning after > >regrets and crunkne behavior. It takes away the seriousness of those that > >have actually been raped. > > > > > > he said: > >> >Yes indeed. What's rape today? > >> >Drunk people having sex or people having sex and regret it later? > >> >It happens to man too. Except that no woman is send to jail for such a > >> >ridiculous crime > > His definition of rape is (read above). In his definition, violence > isn't mentioned. Force isn't mentioned. > > I agree with you that there is a need to differentiate between liars, > people who made bad choices and people who were drugged, beaten, or held > down against their will. The stigma of being accused of rape is too > great to take one person's word for it. So... gosh, let's see...I know! > Let's have a trial! Not a problem is the 'seriousness of the accusation" doesn't take precendent over the facts............as evidenced by the number of people being exonerated by DNA. > > 'Kate > > Not a problem is the 'seriousness of the accusation" doesn't take > precendent over the facts............as evidenced by the number of people > being exonerated by DNA. Yeah...uhm...before DNA was fully established ...like cases before DNA was used in cases. There is not usually a rape where some sort of physical evidence is available. V > Empowering boys > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > V wrote; >snip maybe telling the boys exactly what being raped feels like to a woman , > how it destroys both body and mind and the struggle involved with > healing from such a despicable act. (touchy subject) :( > Bev Unfortuantely 1 out of 6 boys will know what it feels like to be raped. It is a touchy subject. thanks for your input. btw, how is the baby? V > > Empowering boys > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > It is a touchy subject. thanks for your input. btw, how is the baby? > V I have a feeling that the 1 out of 6 is a phony statistic...... >I have a feeling that the 1 out of 6 is a phony statistic...... Right. People's personal experiences are not relevent to discussions, but your "feelings" are. Joelle The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St Augustine Joelle Personal experiences doesn't alter statistical relevance, (as much as you'd like it to) but it is very easy to generate a phony statistic by repeating a lie long enough, or misconstruing data. I saw some stats that showed somewhere between 3 and 5 % of men had been sexually assualted AND that 1 in 6 had occurred prior to the age of 16........it is easy to see how that might have become what the OP posted, hence my 'feeling' If you have information differently, please post it. Next time you might want to think a little more before trying to flame. > >I have a feeling that the 1 out of 6 is a phony statistic...... > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Augustine > Joelle On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:22:14 -0500, "P.Fritz" <paulNOfritzSPAM@voyager.net> >Personal experiences doesn't alter statistical relevance, (as much as you'd >like it to) but it is very easy to generate a phony statistic by repeating a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >information differently, please post it. Next time you might want to think >a little more before trying to flame. Several studies (and I can easily find a few) show that rape does not have the same repercussions in men/boys than in women/girls. Women are the ones who seek help most often. That's why the studies have been generated on women. Men tend not to seek help. Do they need help? Who knows. Sometimes focusing on a bad thing that happened makes it worse. 'Kate > On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:22:14 -0500, "P.Fritz" > <paulNOfritzSPAM@voyager.net> > >Personal experiences doesn't alter statistical relevance, (as much as you'd > >like it to) but it is very easy to generate a phony statistic by repeating a > >lie long enough, or misconstruing data. I saw some stats that showed > >somewhere between 3 and 5 % of men had been sexually assualted AND that 1 in > >6 had occurred prior to the age of 16........it is easy to see how that > >might have become what the OP posted, hence my 'feeling' If you have > >information differently, please post it. Next time you might want to think > >a little more before trying to flame. > > Several studies (and I can easily find a few) show that rape does not > have the same repercussions in men/boys than in women/girls. Women are > the ones who seek help most often. That's why the studies have been > generated on women. Men tend not to seek help. Do they need help? Who > knows. Sometimes focusing on a bad thing that happened makes it worse. Studies done by the same people that want to 'fix' the census count by guesstamites? > > 'Kate > > On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 22:27:05 -0500, "Paul Fritz" <paulfritzREMOVEME@voyager.net> > > On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:22:14 -0500, "P.Fritz" > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Studies done by the same people that want to 'fix' the census count by >guesstamites? I don't know. And I would take the time to tell you how this information, about the repercussions of rape on boys/men came about but why bother? You'll believe what you want to and when you can't follow the conversation, you call someone a name. 'Kate >ou have >information differently, please post it. Next time you might want to think >a little more before trying to flame I wasn't flaming - I was just pointing out how inconsistent you are. If someone else posted a "feeling" about statistics that didn't jive with your opinion you'd be the one flaming much more than my simple pointing out your inconsistency. Joelle The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St Augustine Joelle > >ou have > >information differently, please post it. Next time you might want to think > >a little more before trying to flame > > I wasn't flaming - Yeah right................................ I was just pointing out how inconsistent you are. If > someone else posted a "feeling" about statistics that didn't jive with your > opinion you'd be the one flaming much more than my simple pointing out your > inconsistency. I'm not inconsistent at all. My 'feeling' was based on the information I have seen, not an opinion pulled from the air. You on the other hand, seem to think that your opinions formed by a ridiculously small and non random sample set, somehow trumps any study that shoots holes in your opinion. So you don't have any information to validate the OP? > > Joelle > The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St > Augustine > Joelle >I'm not inconsistent at all. Saying doesn't make it true. > So you don't have any information to validate the OP? Um, I believe the OP wanted to empower boys. Frankly I think the whole "empowerment" idea is stupid. I think you should just raise kids to be decent people. Period. And to be more consistent than you are. Joelle The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St Augustine Joelle > I have a feeling that the 1 out of 6 is a phony statistic...... Actually it is a real stat. Do some research and find out. Nothing here is phony. V > > "P.Fritz" <paulNOfritzSPAM@voyager.net> wrote in message > news:1046f00notit024@corp.supernews.com... > > > >> > > I have a feeling that the 1 out of 6 is a phony statistic...... > > > > > Actually it is a real stat. Do some research and find out. Nothing here is > phony. No, you made the statement, the burden of proof is on you. BTW, just because something is a statistic, doesn't mean it is not a phony statistic. > V > > > > > > "P.Fritz" <paulNOfritzSPAM@voyager.net> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > > V There is no burden of proof. I am not the state prosecuting a case. This is a newsgroup. Now kiss off. Your ignorance makes me sick. V > > > > > > "P.Fritz" <paulNOfritzSPAM@voyager.net> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > newsgroup. > Now kiss off. Your ignorance makes me sick. Actually your ignorance is what is sick, BTW, you response is soooooooooooooooo typcial of someone caught making a baseless claim <snicker> > V > > I have a feeling that the 1 out of 6 is a phony statistic...... > > > Actually it is a real stat. Do some research and find out. Nothing here is > phony. > V Can you post where that research came from? It just seems to me that with the high stats of those who were raped, molested, ect that just about every one has been molested or raped. T > > Can you post where that research came from? It just seems to me that with > the high stats of those who were raped, molested, ect that just about every > one has been molested or raped. > > T www.acar.org go to bureau of justice stats....look up UCR. Now these are not the ones NOT reported and we all know rape is the most unreported crime, especially among men. V > > > Can you post where that research came from? It just seems to me that with > > the high stats of those who were raped, molested, ect that just about every [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > men. > V Lets do a little math, vased on two of the stats from your 'source' "By the age of 18 1in 4 girls will be raped, and 1 in 6 boys will be raped." There are approximately 80,000,000 under the age of 18 in the U.S. (source...U.S census) Aprroximately 50% of each sex (though girls have a slight majority)= 40,000,000 each under the age of 18. For simplicity's sake, lets assume they are equally divide by year, which means there are approximately 2,222,222 of each sex per year. Based on the 1/4 and 1/6 stat, would mean that 555,555 girls and 370,370 boys will have been raped by the time they are 18....each and every year. "In 1995, 354,670 women were the victims of a rape or sexual assault. (NationalCrime Victimization Survey. Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. Department of Justice, 1996." "The FBI estimates that only 37% of all rapes are reported to the police." I'll accept that at face value......which means 958,000 "According to the Justice Department, one in two rape victims are under age 18; one in six are under age 12. (Child Rape Victims, 1992. U.S. Department of Justice.)" Okay, that make 479,000 per year. Now, returning to the 555,000 required to average the 1 in 4 'stat' there is already a significant shortfall. Then you would have to factor in the repeat victim factor...... and the 1 in 4 'stat' looks even more suspect. I cannot find the specific cite, but male rape accounts for about 10% of all rapes, so based on the 958,000 number for female rapes, that would mean 95,800 male rapes per year..........not even close to the 370,000 REQUIRED to meet your 1 in 6 'stat' Another stat. "The FBI estimates that 72 of every 100,000 females in the United States wereraped last year. (Federal Bureau of Investigation, Uniform Crime Statistics, 1996" If every one of those rapes were to a female under the age of 18, the cumulative amount over 18 years would be 1296 per 100,000. not even close to 1 in 4 As I suspected, your 'stats' (while well intended) ............and accounting for underreporting are phony. " > If every one of those rapes were to a female under the age of 18, the > cumulative amount over 18 years would be 1296 per 100,000. not even close > to 1 in 4 Where are you getting under 18? UCR is stats that are reported ONLY not reported is a guestimate. You did all that figuring to prove a point? V > As I suspected, your 'stats' (while well intended) ............and > accounting for underreporting are phony. > " > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > You did all that figuring to prove a point? > V LMAO...........why don't you quit while you are behind. Not only did you snip the points that showed your allegations to be hogwash, you can't even comprehend the one point you left in. BTW..........The guessatmate would have to be 20 times the reported amount AND all (reported and guesstimated) would have to be against those under 18.........it just goes to show how phony your misandrist phony headline stats are. > > As I suspected, your 'stats' (while well intended) ............and > > accounting for underreporting are phony. > LMAO...........why don't you quit while you are behind. Not only did you > snip the points that showed your allegations to be hogwash, you can't even [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > > As I suspected, your 'stats' (while well intended) ............and > > > accounting for underreporting are phony. Paul look very closely. Your stats are not valid because the UCR is based on 100,000 person in a city, so the amount in a city is futile. 16,000 agencies report, city, state and county levels, and they report to the major violent and property crimes, one being the forcible rape. You are not an expert in any of the stats, you are not an expert in criminal justice, nor am I. But I do attend class everyday and make no less than a 90 on my tests, worked for law enforcement agency for almost four years, so I am almost sure that I have a bit more insight than you. But go on and do your little "I am so smart" dance. No one is watching. V > > "P.Fritz" <paulNOfritzSPAM@voyager.net> wrote in message > news:104clc0f51v45a8@corp.supernews.com... > > LMAO...........why don't you quit while you are behind. Not only did you > > snip the points that showed your allegations to be hogwash, you can't even > > comprehend the one point you left in. > > > > BTW..........The guessatmate would have to be 20 times the reported amount > > AND all (reported and guesstimated) would have to be against those under > > 18.........it just goes to show how phony your misandrist phony headline > > stats are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I suspected, your 'stats' (while well intended) ............and > > > > accounting for underreporting are phony. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Paul look very closely. Your stats are not valid because the UCR is based on > 100,000 person in a city, so the amount in a city is futile. 16,000 agencies > report, city, state and county levels, and they report to the major violent > and property crimes, one being the forcible rape. > You are not an expert in any of the stats, you are not an expert in criminal > justice, nor am I. But I do attend class everyday and make no less than a 90 > on my tests, worked for law enforcement agency for almost four years, so I am > almost sure that I have a bit more insight than you. > But go on and do your little "I am so smart" dance. No one is watching. > V <snicker> Is that what they teach you in class? How to run from the facts, and try to use put downs to cover up your errors? You are the classic example of 'good intentions' gone bad. Don't be too 'sure on anything......we all know what "ASSuming' does. Or didn't they teach that in class either It doesn't take an 'expert' to look at the facts and see that the 'stats' you promote are phony. Your snippage of the post to avoid the true facts is just as telling, as is your denial and constant defense of your errors. > > > On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 14:37:39 -0500, "P.Fritz" <paulNOfritzSPAM@voyager.net> >> > > Can you post where that research came from? It just seems to me that >with [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] >As I suspected, your 'stats' (while well intended) ............and >accounting for underreporting are phony. The problem with how you've reported is that each agency uses a different criterion for what it includes as rape. For example, the FBI statistics do not include incomplete rape or non-violent rape. A person can be penetrated without ejaculation and that will not be included (an example only). The rate of rape/sexual assault has lessened considerably since 1995. If 248,000 people were raped or sexually assaulted in 2002 (reported rapes only) and 44%* of reports filed are from victims who are 18 years old or less, then 109,000 are under 18. If adolescence starts at age 13, then by the time a child reaches age 18 (5 years), 545,000 teens will have reported being raped or sexually assaulted. *Sex Offenses and Offenders. Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. Department of Justice, 1997. Age 12-34 are the highest risk years. Risk peaks in the late teens: girls 16 to 19 are four times more likely than the general population to be victims of rape, attempted rape or sexual assault. [2000 NCVS.] Also, violent crime rates, overall, are higher for lower SES, and some minority groups. The statistics tend to vary by area/location too. Urban v. suburban and rural have to be considerations when evaluating risk. Urban areas have higher crime rates. All in all, the numbers are confusing. It seems that in some areas, the incidence of rape may be as high as 1:6 male, 1:4 female. I would like to add that I have never seen a report on the incidence of rape in prisons. My general belief is that one victim is too many when it's someone you love. Teaching rape prevention and awareness to both male and female teens is a great idea. 'Kate > On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 14:37:39 -0500, "P.Fritz" > <paulNOfritzSPAM@voyager.net> > > > >"V" <vbiggs@frontiernet.net> wrote in message > >news:vYb1c.835$hG.277@news02.roc.ny... > >> > >> "Tiffany" <tiffanyann@blazenet.net> wrote in message > >> news:10493f7iujnar90@corp.supernews.com... > >> > > >> > > Can you post where that research came from? It just seems to me that > >with > >> > the high stats of those who were raped, molested, ect that just about > >every > >> > one has been molested or raped. > >> > > >> > T > >> > > >> > > >> > >> www.acar.org > >> go to bureau of justice stats....look up UCR. Now these are not the ones > >NOT > >> reported and we all know rape is the most unreported crime, especially > >among > >> men. > >> V > >> > >Lets do a little math, vased on two of the stats from your 'source' > >"By the age of 18 1in 4 girls will be raped, and 1 in 6 boys will be raped." > > > >There are approximately 80,000,000 under the age of 18 in the U.S. > >(source...U.S census) > >Aprroximately 50% of each sex (though girls have a slight majority)= > >40,000,000 each under the age of 18. For simplicity's sake, lets assume > >they are equally divide by year, which means there are approximately > >2,222,222 of each sex per year. > > > >Based on the 1/4 and 1/6 stat, would mean that 555,555 girls and 370,370 > >boys will have been raped by the time they are 18....each and every year. > > > >"In 1995, 354,670 women were the victims of a rape or sexual assault. > >(NationalCrime Victimization Survey. Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. > >Department of Justice, 1996." > > > >"The FBI estimates that only 37% of all rapes are reported to the police." > > > >I'll accept that at face value......which means 958,000 > > > >"According to the Justice Department, one in two rape victims are under age > >18; one in six are under age 12. (Child Rape Victims, 1992. U.S. Department > >of Justice.)" > > > >Okay, that make 479,000 per year. Now, returning to the 555,000 required > >to average the 1 in 4 'stat' there is already a significant shortfall. > >Then you would have to factor in the repeat victim factor...... and the 1 > >in 4 'stat' looks even more suspect. > > > >I cannot find the specific cite, but male rape accounts for about 10% of all > >rapes, so based on the 958,000 number for female rapes, that would mean > >95,800 male rapes per year..........not even close to the 370,000 REQUIRED > >to meet your 1 in 6 'stat' > > > >Another stat. > > > >"The FBI estimates that 72 of every 100,000 females in the United States > >wereraped last year. (Federal Bureau of Investigation, Uniform Crime > >Statistics, 1996" > > > >If every one of those rapes were to a female under the age of 18, the > >cumulative amount over 18 years would be 1296 per 100,000. not even close > >to 1 in 4 > > > > > >As I suspected, your 'stats' (while well intended) ............and > >accounting for underreporting are phony. > > The problem with how you've reported is that each agency uses a > different criterion for what it includes as rape. For example, the FBI > statistics do not include incomplete rape or non-violent rape. A person > can be penetrated without ejaculation and that will not be included (an > example only). > > The rate of rape/sexual assault has lessened considerably since 1995. > > If 248,000 people were raped or sexually assaulted in 2002 (reported > rapes only) and 44%* of reports filed are from victims who are 18 years > old or less, then 109,000 are under 18. If adolescence starts at age > 13, then by the time a child reaches age 18 (5 years), 545,000 teens > will have reported being raped or sexually assaulted. Classic example of stats gone bad. Lets take your example......109,000 under age 18 were raped....lets call it 110,000 for easy math, so every year age group would average 22,000 rapes per year. ( 110,000 divide by 5 years. ) The cumulative total would be 110,000 as each year group passed their 18th year. The 1 in 4 stat is bogus. > > *Sex Offenses and Offenders. Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. > Department of Justice, 1997. > > Age 12-34 are the highest risk years. Risk peaks in the late teens: > girls 16 to 19 are four times more likely than the general population to > be victims of rape, attempted rape or sexual assault. [2000 NCVS.] Has nothing to do with the 1 in 4 claimed ratio > > Also, violent crime rates, overall, are higher for lower SES, and some > minority groups. The statistics tend to vary by area/location too. > Urban v. suburban and rural have to be considerations when evaluating > risk. Urban areas have higher crime rates. > > All in all, the numbers are confusing. It seems that in some areas, the > incidence of rape may be as high as 1:6 male, 1:4 female. I would like > to add that I have never seen a report on the incidence of rape in > prisons. Would not affect the under 18 stat significantly > > My general belief is that one victim is too many when it's someone you > love. Teaching rape prevention and awareness to both male and female > teens is a great idea. NO arguement there, but teaching the truth is more important than teaching urban myths. > > 'Kate > On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:47:19 -0500, "Paul Fritz" <paulfritzREMOVEME@voyager.net> > <'Kate> wrote in message > > The problem with how you've reported is that each agency uses a > > different criterion for what it includes as rape. For example, the FBI [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >rapes per year. ( 110,000 divide by 5 years. ) The cumulative total would >be 110,000 as each year group passed their 18th year. Actually, no. One would not divide the five years into the 110,000. Doing that would only be manipulating the numbers and not be a true picture of the risk. The chance of being raped increases dramatically in the 16-19 year old female age group. It increases also for those living in cities and who are black or hispanic. Spreading "risk" over years evenly does not give a realistic picture of that risk given that each age group does not have an equal "chance". > The 1 in 4 stat is bogus. I can't say that anything you've shown would prove that and nothing I've shown would disprove it. In some areas of the country, there may be a risk of 1:4 or 1:6. In some areas there may be 0 risk. If there is a local problem, then it is up to that locality to address the occurrences, find the cause, and lessen the risk. What I have seen is that there is an overall rate of decline for rape that started in the mid 1990's. I can think of several reasons for that and among those reasons is manipulation of statistics and the definitions of the variables that are used to compile the statistics. I don't think that the victims did the manipulation so there must be another reason - perhaps political. > > *Sex Offenses and Offenders. Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. > > Department of Justice, 1997. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Has nothing to do with the 1 in 4 claimed ratio Nor was I defending that statistic at that point. I was fact finding. Part of the fact finding was getting information that would increase or decrease risk among teens. If risk is higher when a teen enters those age groups, then that is important to know. > > Also, violent crime rates, overall, are higher for lower SES, and some > > minority groups. The statistics tend to vary by area/location too. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Would not affect the under 18 stat significantly Correct but something that has been discussed in the university that I attend because it also serves the prison system. I hadn't looked at the stats to ascertain that they weren't reported along with the rate of violent assaults in the general population. That was more for me. > > My general belief is that one victim is too many when it's someone you > > love. Teaching rape prevention and awareness to both male and female > > teens is a great idea. > > NO arguement there, but teaching the truth is more important than teaching >urban myths. It depends on what one calls truth. If one's city has a higher report rate and a lower conviction rate, then there's a problem that needs to be addressed. If one's city has a high report and conviction rate, then that is a different problem. Overall, being in a city that has a high number of reported rapes & convictions will raise one's risk. Using statistics that are locally relevant and applying them nationally is not the way to go on something like this and vice versa... using national numbers to make local risk seem less can be potentially harmful. We live in our own areas. The urban myth may be more of a reality in a specific town. 'Kate > On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:47:19 -0500, "Paul Fritz" > <paulfritzREMOVEME@voyager.net> [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > years evenly does not give a realistic picture of that risk given that > each age group does not have an equal "chance". It doesn't matter how you divide up the numbers, the averages would still be the same, as will the cumulative totals. > > The 1 in 4 stat is bogus. > > I can't say that anything you've shown would prove that and nothing I've > shown would disprove it. Actaully, the numbers show that the 1 in 4 stat is bogus > In some areas of the country, there may be a > risk of 1:4 or 1:6. In some areas there may be 0 risk. That does not affect the average. > If there is a > local problem, then it is up to that locality to address the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > the victims did the manipulation so there must be another reason - > perhaps political. Perhaps? That is the understatement of the year. > > > *Sex Offenses and Offenders. Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. > > > Department of Justice, 1997. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > decrease risk among teens. If risk is higher when a teen enters those > age groups, then that is important to know. No doubt, as well as the where's and how's......such as use of alcohol and drugs. > > > Also, violent crime rates, overall, are higher for lower SES, and some > > > minority groups. The statistics tend to vary by area/location too. [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > in our own areas. The urban myth may be more of a reality in a specific > town. Sorry, but the claimed stat was "in the United States": that is an average across the board, not a local anomally. > 'Kate On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:46:05 -0500, "P.Fritz" <paulNOfritzSPAM@voyager.net> >> On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:47:19 -0500, "Paul Fritz" >> <paulfritzREMOVEME@voyager.net> [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] >It doesn't matter how you divide up the numbers, the averages would still be >the same, as will the cumulative totals. LOL... yes, averages mean just that. >> > The 1 in 4 stat is bogus. >> [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] >No doubt, as well as the where's and how's......such as use of alcohol and >drugs. <snip> >Sorry, but the claimed stat was "in the United States": that is an average >across the board, not a local anomally. I can't imagine assessing risk in individual towns other than my own. I can believe that the 1:4, 1:6 is possible in some areas. I would not defend, however, a statistic that I was unwilling to research so I didn't. I also think it's foolish to discount that there are high risk groups and if I argued those numbers, it would be on the basis of high v. low risk groups and say "as high as". 'Kate > On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:46:05 -0500, "P.Fritz" > <paulNOfritzSPAM@voyager.net> > > > ><'Kate> wrote in message news:ldfe40h4dtujbj24ufkd9itr08lpvm2anr@4ax.com... > >> On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:47:19 -0500, "Paul Fritz" > >> <paulfritzREMOVEME@voyager.net> > >> > > >> > <'Kate> wrote in message > >> > >> > > The problem with how you've reported is that each agency uses a > >> > > different criterion for what it includes as rape. For example, the > >FBI > >> > > statistics do not include incomplete rape or non-violent rape. A > >person > >> > > can be penetrated without ejaculation and that will not be included > >(an > >> > > example only). > >> > > > >> > > The rate of rape/sexual assault has lessened considerably since 1995. > >> > > > >> > > If 248,000 people were raped or sexually assaulted in 2002 (reported > >> > > rapes only) and 44%* of reports filed are from victims who are 18 > >years > >> > > old or less, then 109,000 are under 18. If adolescence starts at age > >> > > 13, then by the time a child reaches age 18 (5 years), 545,000 teens > >> > > will have reported being raped or sexually assaulted. > >> > > >> > Classic example of stats gone bad. > >> > > >> > Lets take your example......109,000 under age 18 were raped....lets > >call > >> >it 110,000 for easy math, so every year age group would average 22,000 > >> >rapes per year. ( 110,000 divide by 5 years. ) The cumulative total > >would > >> >be 110,000 as each year group passed their 18th year. > >> > >> Actually, no. One would not divide the five years into the 110,000. > >> Doing that would only be manipulating the numbers and not be a true > >> picture of the risk. The chance of being raped increases dramatically > >> in the 16-19 year old female age group. It increases also for those > >> living in cities and who are black or hispanic. Spreading "risk" over > >> years evenly does not give a realistic picture of that risk given that > >> each age group does not have an equal "chance". > > > >It doesn't matter how you divide up the numbers, the averages would still be > >the same, as will the cumulative totals. > > LOL... yes, averages mean just that. > > >> > The 1 in 4 stat is bogus. > >> > >> I can't say that anything you've shown would prove that and nothing I've > >> shown would disprove it. > > > >Actaully, the numbers show that the 1 in 4 stat is bogus > > > >> In some areas of the country, there may be a > >> risk of 1:4 or 1:6. In some areas there may be 0 risk. > > > >That does not affect the average. > > > >> If there is a > >> local problem, then it is up to that locality to address the > >> occurrences, find the cause, and lessen the risk. What I have seen is > >> that there is an overall rate of decline for rape that started in the > >> mid 1990's. I can think of several reasons for that and among those > >> reasons is manipulation of statistics and the definitions of the > >> variables that are used to compile the statistics. I don't think that > >> the victims did the manipulation so there must be another reason - > >> perhaps political. > > > >Perhaps? That is the understatement of the year. > > > >> > >> > > *Sex Offenses and Offenders. Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. > >> > > Department of Justice, 1997. > >> > > > >> > > Age 12-34 are the highest risk years. Risk peaks in the late teens: > >> > > girls 16 to 19 are four times more likely than the general population > >to > >> > > be victims of rape, attempted rape or sexual assault. [2000 NCVS.] > >> > > >> > Has nothing to do with the 1 in 4 claimed ratio > >> > >> Nor was I defending that statistic at that point. I was fact finding. > >> Part of the fact finding was getting information that would increase or > >> decrease risk among teens. If risk is higher when a teen enters those > >> age groups, then that is important to know. > > > >No doubt, as well as the where's and how's......such as use of alcohol and > >drugs. > <snip> > >Sorry, but the claimed stat was "in the United States": that is an average > >across the board, not a local anomally. > > I can't imagine assessing risk in individual towns other than my own. I > can believe that the 1:4, 1:6 is possible in some areas. I would not > defend, however, a statistic that I was unwilling to research so I > didn't. I also think it's foolish to discount that there are high risk > groups and if I argued those numbers, it would be on the basis of high > v. low risk groups and say "as high as". Any rape. regardless of age is horrific, I just don't like seeing issues used to advance an agenda based all false data. > > 'Kate On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 22:43:30 -0500, "Paul Fritz" <paulfritzREMOVEME@voyager.net> > Any rape. regardless of age is horrific, I just don't like seeing issues >used to advance an agenda based all false data. Yeah. After all this, it is a wonder that any program is developed to prevent rape. This thread started because Vicky saw a need in her community and is working to fill that need. It got sidetracked but that shouldn't take away from the good that she is doing. 'Kate > > > Can you post where that research came from? It just seems to me that with > > the high stats of those who were raped, molested, ect that just about every [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > men. > V I see the stats on the website but no mention of how and who obtained the stats. Not relevant to your original post though so no need to argue or anything. T Re: Empowering boys Group: alt.support.single-parents Date: Sun, Feb 29, 2004, 1:31am (EST+5) From: vbiggs@frontiernet.net (V) snip maybe telling the boys exactly what being raped feels like to a woman , how it destroys both body and mind and the struggle involved with healing from such a despicable act. (touchy subject) :( Bev Unfortuantely 1 out of 6 boys will know what it feels like to be raped. It is a touchy subject. thanks for your input. btw, how is the baby? V B wrote: 1 out of 6 ??? this is sad, I hope you have much success with the program. Jaime Gayle is doing much better with her cold, kinda' sleeping better, still has a nasty cough and a gagging flem thing goin' on..........she loves classical music !! Pop in a CD and she's good to go for the duration..... Thanks fer askin' ! :) Bev > Re: Empowering boys > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > loves classical music !! Pop in a CD and she's good to go for the > duration..... Thanks fer askin' ! :) Bev Hey music is wonderful for babies. V, who listened to Handel and the Stones as well with headphones on her belly. >I know alot of empowering young women and girlpower and I have read many >periodicals and books on the subject. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >V >The teacher will appear when the pupil is ready. Two books I have found helpful raising boys: The Wonder of Boys: What Parents, Mentors, and Educators Can Do To Shape Boys Into Exceptional Men, by Michael Gurian Real Boys: Rescuing Our Sons From the Myths of Boyhood, by William Pollack lm snip > Two books I have found helpful raising boys: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > lm Thank you Lm. I have read the real boys and will definately check out those books! V On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 01:31:22 GMT, "V" <vbiggs@frontiernet.net> >I know alot of empowering young women and girlpower and I have read many >periodicals and books on the subject. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >V >The teacher will appear when the pupil is ready. I think it's a fabulous idea. I would, if putting together a program, include the history of the man's role in the family, how it became "head of the family" and how it has changed. I also think that we have to reach boys in a different way than we're accustomed to reaching girls. Their communication style is different. I think they're more hands-on than vocal about the things that are bothering them. Mentoring programs for boys would help. I would talk about video game and movie violence. What I've noticed lacking in many of these programs is solid information about exactly where to go and how to get there. For example, we talk about AIDS prevention and the importance of testing but not where to go to get tested and how to get there. The crisis centers, if a teen is in a town with little public transportation, are not accessable. Can, for example, a local program be started to include a free taxi service to the nearest crisis center so that teens can get help? If we eliminate that obstacle, what others are in the way? This is an exciting idea and worth taking the time to think about. There was also a 60 minutes or 20/20 show on communicating with boys about 5-6 years ago. I don't know if you can find a transcript but if you can, I think it would help. 'Kate > On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 01:31:22 GMT, "V" <vbiggs@frontiernet.net> > >I know alot of empowering young women and girlpower and I have read many [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > 'Kate kate; excellent ideas. thank you so much!! V On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 01:33:25 GMT, "V" <vbiggs@frontiernet.net> >kate; excellent ideas. thank you so much!! >V One more... career and college guidance. It'd be better to have speakers, grown males with careers that require college and have them tell a little about their lives and what made them decide to do what they do, how they decided on college and why. I think that learning how it's done is important and learning it from mom is probably not the same message as learning it from a young, successful, adult male. 'Kate > I know alot of empowering young women and girlpower and I have read many > periodicals and books on the subject. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Sorry about the long rant. > Thanks. It is important to keep in mind thar guys/boys often will exert themselves in extreme ways for the sake of being able to maintain their own self respect. But if they are told straight-out in advance that they are all regarded as potential rapists; scum until proven otherwise, and that young women are saints until proven otherwise, you will have blown it. Very few young men are rapists in waiting. If you address the bulk of them as if they are you will have lost all influence with them. > V > The teacher will appear when the pupil is ready. > > I know alot of empowering young women and girlpower and I have read many > > periodicals and books on the subject. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > V > > The teacher will appear when the pupil is ready. Good point Ralph. Most men are not. I will keep this point in mind. Thanks. V This is what > got me to think about how men are raised to commit such a horrible act. > Then I think of their home life, etc. and it is a serious factor? > What do you guys think? And the 'great' thing is, women socialise their SONS who end up raping in the process. On 29 Feb 2004 22:13:27 -0800, connor_a@hotmail.com (connor_a) >This is what >> got me to think about how men are raised to commit such a horrible act. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >And the 'great' thing is, women socialise their SONS who end up raping >in the process. Oh geez... what the heck. A *woman*, the one who posted, is doing her utmost to understand and you slap all women in the face for it as if women are the only ones responsible for the children. Hint... men abandon families too. Men are just as responsible for birth control. Men *are* thinking people. I've heard some horror stories in my lifetime and experienced a few of my own but it doesn't make me a mass murderer or rapist or criminal in any way. Those events do not control my life. It would be a choice if they did. 'Kate > I know alot of empowering young women and girlpower and I have read many > periodicals and books on the subject. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > V > The teacher will appear when the pupil is ready. I would suggest telling the boys exactly what you tell the women. It is possible for men to be taken advantage of the same way women are. You also need to tell them it does happen to men and it does need to be reported. I would also throw in a bit about how men need to start covering their own a.ses when it comes to sex and always wear condoms, regardless of what the women says. As I tell girls, have your own condoms so you are not relying on a dude's condom that might be 5 years old. Why do we feel the need to empower any one group? Why not spend the time teaching basic morals on treating all beings decently? T > I would suggest telling the boys exactly what you tell the women. It is > possible for men to be taken advantage of the same way women are. We do, but it seems that since the beginning of time, women have been disadvantage in fending off rape. It does happen to males and we address that issue. You also > need to tell them it does happen to men and it does need to be reported. I > would also throw in a bit about how men need to start covering their own > a.ses when it comes to sex and always wear condoms, regardless of what the > women says. That is something for mothers to talk to their preteen sons about, not an assault counselor, I come in after the fact. As I tell girls, have your own condoms so you are not relying on > a dude's condom that might be 5 years old. > > Why do we feel the need to empower any one group? Why not spend the time > teaching basic morals on treating all beings decently? Listen Tiffany: I do not want to argue this fact anymore. Teaching morals is done in the home and organizations, like the one I work with can only do so much. Also the education system used to have an ethics and morals class, but it has long been gone. I think that girl power, an organization is special and is geared towards young girls and did not know what organziations might be geared towards young boys. V > > I would suggest telling the boys exactly what you tell the women. It is > > possible for men to be taken advantage of the same way women are. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > geared towards young boys. > V We were arguing? I must have missed that. lol T On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 23:20:35 -0500, "Tiffany" <tiffanyann@blazenet.net> >> > I would suggest telling the boys exactly what you tell the women. It is >> > possible for men to be taken advantage of the same way women are. [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > >T ROFL... that's hysterical! Tiffany, you posted questioning Vicki's statement and yet you haven't even bothered to follow the link that she took the time to post. If you had, you would have posted more than "we were arguing?" At best, that makes you look foolish. "Argue" has many connotations. When used with "the point" it is different from the emotionally charged arguing. Go ahead and tell me you knew that and I will tell you that your posts do not indicate anything more than a rudimentary understanding of the meaning of words. On second thought, don't bother with the link. You woudn't understand it. 'Kate > On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 23:20:35 -0500, "Tiffany" <tiffanyann@blazenet.net> > > [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > > 'Kate Kate..... I have not addressed any of your posts for ages...... this is why. If you got nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all. Your post is not constructive in anyway and you are now being those you use to always complain about. I haven't had the chance to reply to all V's posts to me so no.... I didn't look at the link. When I look at the link, I will reply to her post concerning that issue. So step off your high horse. Vic's reply addressed specifically to me made it look like we have been going back and forth when in fact we haven't. I was just bringing that to light to her. Get off that high horse. Oh yes.... there are some here that know exactly what this is all about..... nothing at all about the post. lol.... get real. T >> ROFL... that's hysterical! >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >Kate..... I have not addressed any of your posts for ages...... this is why. >If you got nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all. Please read the FAQ. The part under why are people so gosh darn mean should clear this up. >Your post is not >constructive in anyway That depends on your interpretation of constructive. >and you are now being those you use to always >complain about. I don't complain about other people. I don't attempt to tell others what to do. I am telling you how you appear to me and believe me, I'm not the only one who has noticed. >I haven't had the chance to reply to all V's posts to me so >no.... I didn't look at the link. When I look at the link, I will reply to >her post concerning that issue. So step off your high horse. I doubt that. And if my post pushes you to learn a little something before you make up your mind and post nonsense, then good. That was the purpose. >Vic's reply addressed specifically to me made it look like we have been >going back and forth when in fact we haven't. I was just bringing that to >light to her. Get off that high horse. Come up to where the rest of the world lives. You're an adult now, Tiffany and you are responsible for your own education. >Oh yes.... there are some here that know exactly what this is all about..... >nothing at all about the post. lol.... get real. <shaking her head> Grow up little girl. 'Kate > >> ROFL... that's hysterical! > >> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > what to do. I am telling you how you appear to me and believe me, I'm > not the only one who has noticed. If others have issues with me, they sure haven't mentioned it to me. Or maybe it is not I who is childish? > >I haven't had the chance to reply to all V's posts to me so > >no.... I didn't look at the link. When I look at the link, I will reply to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > before you make up your mind and post nonsense, then good. That was the > purpose. You think you are teaching me something? You think YOU could push me to learn something before making up my mind? Again, get off your high horse Kate. > >Vic's reply addressed specifically to me made it look like we have been > >going back and forth when in fact we haven't. I was just bringing that to [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > 'Kate If I need to grow up, why is it you started with the throwing of the insults. Yes, I am a little girl, thank you. LMAO T > > >> ROFL... that's hysterical! > > >> [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] > If I need to grow up, why is it you started with the throwing of the > insults. Yes, I am a little girl, thank you. LMAO I've always liked 'little' girls ;-) > T > > <'Kate> wrote in message > news:vqfc40dr6iu1d8ia6ng2po18s3usnkdeir@4ax.com... [quoted text clipped - 72 lines] > > I've always liked 'little' girls ;-) Why? You don't like some cushin' for the pushin'? ;) T > > > <'Kate> wrote in message > > news:vqfc40dr6iu1d8ia6ng2po18s3usnkdeir@4ax.com... [quoted text clipped - 81 lines] > > Why? You don't like some cushin' for the pushin'? ;) Can you say 'Spinner' LMAO > T > > > > <'Kate> wrote in message > > > news:vqfc40dr6iu1d8ia6ng2po18s3usnkdeir@4ax.com... [quoted text clipped - 93 lines] > > Can you say 'Spinner' LMAO lol..... speechless. give me time. ;) T > > > I would suggest telling the boys exactly what you tell the women. It is > > > possible for men to be taken advantage of the same way women are. [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > T Nope, not arguing. I am just aggravated with some perceptions people have. V > > > > I would suggest telling the boys exactly what you tell the women. It is > > > > possible for men to be taken advantage of the same way women are. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > > That is something for mothers to talk to their preteen sons about, not an > > > assault counselor, I come in after the fact. Why not fathers talking to their sons? Moms can talk to their daughters. > > > As I tell girls, have your own condoms so you are not relying on > > > > a dude's condom that might be 5 years old. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > Nope, not arguing. I am just aggravated with some perceptions people have. > V > > > > That is something for mothers to talk to their preteen sons about, not an > > > > assault counselor, I come in after the fact. > > Why not fathers talking to their sons? Moms can talk to their > daughters. You think he'd step up to the plate after having f.cked off before the child was born? Try again > > > > > That is something for mothers to talk to their preteen sons about, > not an [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Try again Whoa nellie! Where did *that* come from? V > > > > > > That is something for mothers to talk to their preteen sons about, > > not an [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > You think he'd step up to the plate after having f.cked off before the > > child was born? What? > > Try again > > Whoa nellie! Where did *that* come from? > V > > > > > > That is something for mothers to talk to their preteen sons about, > > not an [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Whoa nellie! Where did *that* come from? > V LOL! It was a quick response to a silly stupid blanket statement that mothers should discuss issues of this nature with daughters, fathers with sons. Lisa > > > > > That is something for mothers to talk to their preteen sons about, > not an [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Try again You mean after the woman left with the kid without telling dad right.....? Spare me your Dad=Bad and Mom=Good sh.t. > > > > > > That is something for mothers to talk to their preteen sons about, > > not an [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > You mean after the woman left with the kid without telling dad > right.....? Spare me your Dad=Bad and Mom=Good sh.t. Wow. I am confused as you are. Did the original poster give us the idea she was "left" with a child? Bitter is bad. Seek help and we can help the OP. I know it is hard, but not all dads leave kids. Some mom s do for different reasons. V > > > > > > That is something for mothers to talk to their preteen sons about, > > not an [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > You mean after the woman left with the kid without telling dad > right.....? Spare me your Dad=Bad and Mom=Good sh.t. I dunno, folks tell me I'm a good sh.t all the time. How bout you? You some bad sh.t boy? > > > > > > > > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > I dunno, folks tell me I'm a good sh.t all the time. How bout you? You > some bad sh.t boy? No..I am a grown man. We see you agenda now. I knew it. http://www.peekaboo.net/archives/cat13/46.html I found the article and thought it would be good to post in this thread. It primarily centers on the influence of the media on our children: the messages that they are hearing and what they notice What was interesting too is the fact that this article was found in the "woman's section" when it should be of interest to both male and female parents. 'Kate > No..I am a grown man. We see you agenda now. I knew it. Sky king are you raising children alone? Just curious , V >> No..I am a grown man. We see you agenda now. I knew it. > >Sky king are you raising children alone? Just curious , V No, he's not, at least according to his posting to talk.rape and soc.men. He probably won't even see this. This thread started crossposted, and it just happens I post to both assp and talk.rape, so I can tell you that his home groups are those, not this one. Cele > > No..I am a grown man. We see you agenda now. I knew it. > > Sky king are you raising children alone? Just curious , V Mine are raised but I did the majority of the raising.... > > > > That is something for mothers to talk to their preteen sons about, not an > > > > assault counselor, I come in after the fact. > > Why not fathers talking to their sons? Moms can talk to their > daughters. You are absolutely right and should do so. I was thinking about the time when I had to talk to my son about sex. I was not being gender biased. Sorry. V > > > > > That is something for mothers to talk to their preteen sons about, not > an [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I had to talk to my son about sex. I was not being gender biased. Sorry. > V I don't think you were being gender biased. Both parents should talk to the kids, that way they see both sides of the card. Unfortutanly both parents aren't always there. How much longer before you have the talk? T > > > > > > That is something for mothers to talk to their preteen sons about, > not [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > T I think it's important to be upfront with kids and to use appropriate labels for things. No wee wee in my house, ya call it what it is. I'm sure my kids know more than what I am probably aware of, but I'm hoping I don't balk when the time comes... which will be pretty soon I'm afraid. Christine > > > > > > > That is something for mothers to talk to their preteen sons > about, [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Christine Ahh... your sons are to young yet! :) Proper language is best, like you said. T >> > > > > > > That is something for mothers to talk to their preteen sons >> about, [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >Ahh... your sons are to young yet! :) Proper language is best, like you >said. No they're not! Mine are about the same age as Christine's and it's a hot topic! Be ready CME! lm > I think it's important to be upfront with kids and to use appropriate labels > for things. No wee wee in my house, ya call it what it is. I'm sure my > kids know more than what I am probably aware of, but I'm hoping I don't balk > when the time comes... which will be pretty soon I'm afraid. > > Christine J still says "ding ding"lol...I think he does it to irritate me! V > > > > > > > That is something for mothers to talk to their preteen sons > about, [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > kids, that way they see both sides of the card. Unfortutanly both parents > > aren't always there. Yep..sometimes only the father is there. How much longer before you have the talk? > > T > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Christine > I don't think you were being gender biased. Both parents should talk to the > kids, that way they see both sides of the card. Unfortutanly both parents > aren't always there. How much longer before you have the talk? > > T Oh we have. They know what I do and my kids (both) have been taught how to defend themselves, against anyone trying to hurt them....as far as sex we have had the talk...and it was not so bad. I was just open and will stay opening to questioning. I forget sometimes, there are single dads to girls vice versa, hence using "mom's talking to sons" instead of parents talking to their children. How old are your kids? V > > I don't think you were being gender biased. Both parents should talk to the > > kids, that way they see both sides of the card. Unfortutanly both parents [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > How old are your kids? > V One....12 girl. We had the talk, retalk, reminder talk, ect. She will be 13 at the end of the month so its getting closer and closer to the point she may do 'it'. Now I work to remind her what can happen that one instant with out protection, stuff like that. T > > V <vbiggs@frontiernet.net> wrote in message > news:HXx1c.2367$Az1.765@news01.roc.ny... > > > > "Tiffany" <tiffanyann@blazenet.net> wrote in message > > news:104ckra753pis65@corp.supernews.com... > > > > > I don't think you were being gender biased. Both parents should talk to > the > > > kids, that way they see both sides of the card. Unfortutanly both > parents > > > aren't always there. How much longer before you have the talk? > > > > > > T > > > > > > > > > > Oh we have. They know what I do and my kids (both) have been taught how to > > defend themselves, against anyone trying to hurt them....as far as sex we > have > > had the talk...and it was not so bad. I was just open and will stay > opening to > > questioning. I forget sometimes, there are single dads to girls vice > versa, > > hence using "mom's talking to sons" instead of parents talking to their > > children. > > How old are your kids? > > V > > > > > > One....12 girl. We had the talk, retalk, reminder talk, ect. She will be 13 > at the end of the month so its getting closer and closer to the point she > may do 'it'. Now I work to remind her what can happen that one instant with > out protection, stuff like that. Yeah, two kids were caught at the local public school.......8th graders, he was getting a b.j. in a science room DURING class. My ex overheard my daughter (13) taking to a friend about another girl iin her class (private catholic school) getting 'fingered' during school.........YIKES > > T > > > > > > V <vbiggs@frontiernet.net> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > > > Yeah, its scary. I talk to mine about oral sex.... I don't want her running around giving bl.wj.bs with disregard for her own sexual pleasure. lol. Actually I don't say it that way. These girls just do the bj's and get nothing back. In that case it is demoralizing. I do tell her that emotions and feelings should be considered before doing anything sexual and that were she to be one of those girls doing the bj's or whatever, she would get a reputation that would follow her through high school. I never spoke to her about getting 'fingered'. I guess that will have to come up at the next one. I will add also that it is becoming common for teenagers to engage is anal sex..... because all these things aren't really SEX you see. You can't get pregnant doing these things. Thanks Clinton. Side note...... imagine the teacher who caught the 2 in the mist of oral sex during a lecture! T >> > >> > V <vbiggs@frontiernet.net> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] >sex..... because all these things aren't really SEX you see. You can't get >pregnant doing these things. Thanks Clinton. All of that thinking predates Clinton, you can be sure of that. lm > >> > > >> > V <vbiggs@frontiernet.net> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] > > lm I don't know.... me and my friends weren't giving head all over schools. lol T > I don't know.... me and my friends weren't giving head all over schools. lol There was a scary article in the Globe and Mail a few months back that said girl even as young as 11-12 are performing oral sex, because it is consider the "new" goodnight kiss. Not only should girls this young not be having any kind of sex on ethical grounds, but if they start that young and it is just a game, then it loses all meaning. Sharing themselves with someone will never be special. Betty > >> > > >> > V <vbiggs@frontiernet.net> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] > > All of that thinking predates Clinton, you can be sure of that. voice of experience???? sorry, I couldn't resist.............yes sex predates Clinton, but the general acceptance of such acts 'not being sex' as an excuse certain can be laid at his feet. > lm > > >> > > > >> > V <vbiggs@frontiernet.net> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 86 lines] > predates Clinton, but the general acceptance of such acts 'not being sex' as > an excuse certain can be laid at his feet. I think it didn't help a society that is already going down the tubes with a lack of basic morals. He definately started the phrase that is still sticking that certain sexual acts AREN'T sex. T >> > >> > >> > >> > V <vbiggs@frontiernet.net> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 95 lines] >lack of basic morals. He definately started the phrase that is still >sticking that certain sexual acts AREN'T sex. You guys didn't spend much time around catholic schools, did you? Girls have been protecting their virtue whilst having nonsex-sex for a long time. lm > >> > >> > > >> > >> > V <vbiggs@frontiernet.net> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 101 lines] > > lm Not the schools I went to. >> >> > On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:23:33 -0500, "Tiffany" ><tiffanyann@blazenet.net> [quoted text clipped - 126 lines] > >Not the schools I went to. Maybe back then you just didn't have the way with women you have now. :-) lm On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 17:38:58 -0500, "P.Fritz" <paulNOfritzSPAM@voyager.net> >> You guys didn't spend much time around catholic schools, did you? >> Girls have been protecting their virtue whilst having nonsex-sex for a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Not the schools I went to. Mine either. Of course, it was an all girls school and, ya know.. maybe I just didn't hear all of what went on. 'Kate > >I think it didn't help a society that is already going down the tubes with a > >lack of basic morals. He definately started the phrase that is still [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > lm No, I am not catholic. Lets not get into that. lol I actually went to a Christian school and we sure weren't doing all that. T > > > > > > V <vbiggs@frontiernet.net> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > Side note...... imagine the teacher who caught the 2 in the mist of oral sex > during a lecture! Well, you have to watch out for the teachers as well. You may remember a certain very successful H.S. basketball coach (and dean of students) ....I went to school with him......that ended up doing a couple of years in the Pa. State Prison for being involved with several female students.......and apparently it had been going on for years.......perosnally, I don't think he did enough time...........and had it been my daughter.....I'd probably be doing time now. > T > Well, you have to watch out for the teachers as well. You may remember a > certain very successful H.S. basketball coach (and dean of students) ....I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > did enough time...........and had it been my daughter.....I'd probably be > doing time now. Sure, you have to tell your kid that just because someone IS a figure of authority doesn't mean you can actually TRUST them. It must be confusing to kids. I have already told my daughter that she doesn't even open the door for someone dressed as a police officer. That basically there is no reason for the cop to enter the house, he can talk through the door. And if someone claims I am injured and at the hospital and is taking her there.... I tell her forget it, if I am injured she can't help anyways and needs to wait for her Grandmother. >> Sure, you have to tell your kid that just because someone IS a figure of > authority doesn't mean you can actually TRUST them. It must be confusing to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > her forget it, if I am injured she can't help anyways and needs to wait for > her Grandmother. This is were the "password" system comes in handy. There are times when, especially single parents, have to have someone else pick up their child. Establishing a password system with your child insures that only someone who YOU have asked to pick them up will be able to. My son knows not to go with anyone, even someone he knows, if the person does not give the password. If I am not there to meet him (if I was hurt or unable to call), and some one (other then my cousin) who does not have the password tries to pick him up, he knows not to go with that person, but to go to my cousins house which is just across the street from us. Once the password has been used, you have to change it of course. Betty > >> Sure, you have to tell your kid that just because someone IS a figure of > > authority doesn't mean you can actually TRUST them. It must be confusing [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Betty That's a good idea.... but luckily my daughter is old enough now that she could be left alone.... no need to have someone other then the select relatives ever pick her up. T On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 22:47:00 GMT, "Betty" <bettyde12@yahoo.com> >This is were the "password" system comes in handy. There are times when, >especially single parents, have to have someone else pick up their child. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Betty That is excellent advice! Thank you for posting it. 'Kate > On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 22:47:00 GMT, "Betty" <bettyde12@yahoo.com> > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > 'Kate Your welcome, but I didn't realise this wasn't common knowledge or a common practice. The password system is used by almost everyone we know. In fact, it is taught in our school as part of the "C.A.R.E." program. I can't remember what the acronym exactly stands for, but starting in Kindergarten right through grade 7, all classes teach safety and sexual awareness. Yesterday my son brought home a page on improper touching and how to prevent it or how to respond if it happens. Betty |
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