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Family Forum / Parenting / Single Parents / January 2006Little boys......
As I have mentioned before I babysit my 3 year old grandson. On several occasions , while he and my grandaughter are playing they play dress-up. One day my step daughter arrived to pick him up and he had little pony tails and baretts all over his head. She asked what is that? Mari explained my grandaughter wanted these things in her hair and he asked to have them too so she put them in. My step daughter says oh don't let his father see this. We laughed and said it is innocent play. The next day he arrived with a crew cut! Then the real problems began when my granddaugher got a vanity set with play lipstick and rouge, and earings and even a little purple tu-tu, ballerina slippers and Tiara . He wants to wear these things and I really myself feel it is harmless, but then I have never had a boy to raise and never have been confronted with this before. I know his mother does not want him to play this way , it is not my place to allow something she is against and I do not know how to explain this to a three year old. Mind you it is not fair to allow my grandaughter this and say no to him? I have tried putting the stuff away but if my grandaughter asks for it , I feel it is something she should not be denied. Then there are the times he finds her dresses and puts them on himself. Please mothers and fathers of boys enlighten me! What should I or can I do to do the right thing? I myself have no feelings that a three year old boy has any thoughts of sexual orientation or that innocent play at this age will turn him into a homosexual. I know as a fact that this little guy has been taught to not like the color pink, he refuses to eat or drink out of anything pink or play with anything pink including pink clothing. I am upset that people would be so silly to do such a thing to a young child. I know his Nanny Gayle would have a lot to say to her daughter, I would be upset to have them pull him away from me if I spoke my mind about how I feel. Bev > As I have mentioned before I babysit my 3 year old grandson. On several > occasions , while he and my grandaughter are playing they play [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > oh don't let his father see this. We laughed and said it is innocent > play. The next day he arrived with a crew cut! ---SNIP--- I'm no expert, but what I would try is to redirect the lad to what might be considered "appropriate play." When the girl is playing with her "girl toys" pull out a truck or something. Make some noises with it - boys like to play with things that they can make noise with! Vroom-vroom!! I think redirection is the key.... -=RaOuL=- > > As I have mentioned before I babysit my 3 year old grandson. On several > > occasions , while he and my grandaughter are playing they play [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > -=RaOuL=- I'm almost certain you are a Father........forgive me if I am mistaken. As much as redirection may help side track his attention from the "girl toys" to the "boy toys", do you also think I should redirect my grandaughter from the "boys toys" to the "girls toys?" What would you say to a little boy that comes out from the bedroom dressed in his sisters dress? Do you think it would be cute or innapropriate for your daughter to wear your work boots? See this is the problem I think . Bev > > ---SNIP--- > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > I'm almost certain you are a Father........forgive me if I am mistaken. Yup, dad of 3 boys! Ages 12, 8 and 2.... The 12 year old lives with me full time, the other 2 are here part time, and with their mom part time. > As much as redirection may help side track his attention from the "girl > toys" to the "boy toys", do you also think I should redirect my > grandaughter from the "boys toys" to the "girls toys?" Only if her parents object to her playing with "boy toys." > What would you say to a little boy that comes out from the bedroom dressed in his > sisters dress? How old is he? If this is a 3 year old, I'd say (in a cute way) "that's silly! you're a boy and that's girl clothes!" If the boy is a teen I'd probably react a little differently - not in a mean way but in a concerned way ("isn't that top a bit low cut?") > Do you think it would be cute or innapropriate for your > daughter to wear your work boots? See this is the problem I think . Bev Are her feet that big? ;) Seriously, it wouldn't bother me. It's been my observation that as children age and interact with their peers they're likely to conform or be beaten into conformance. It happened when I was a kid, and now I see it among my kid's peers. One boy came to a Cub Scout meeting last year (7 year old boys) with nail polish on his finger nails. He wasn't overtly ridiculed, but he was asked alot of questions by the other boys. At the next Scout meeting he didn't have any nail polish on. Peer pressure has a way of working on kids, for better or worse, to make them either conform to "social norms" or survive as outcasts. I'm surviving pretty well as an outcast... -=RaOuL=- > > I'm almost certain you are a Father........forgive me if I am mistaken. > > > Yup, dad of 3 boys! Ages 12, 8 and 2.... The 12 year old lives with me full > time, the other 2 are here part time, and with their mom part time. glad my memory still works sometimes! Three boys...my brother and wife just had their 4th boy! > > As much as redirection may help side track his attention from the "girl > > toys" to the "boy toys", do you also think I should redirect my > > grandaughter from the "boys toys" to the "girls toys?" > > Only if her parents object to her playing with "boy toys." Her parents both just turned 18 , not together and still have a lot of growing to do. Her dad has her into four wheeling and her mom (my daughter) has bought her a basketball hoop and trucks and cars cause she loves them! We just bought her a little mini quad to tool around on too! > > What would you say to a little boy that comes out from the bedroom > dressed in his [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > probably react a little differently - not in a mean way but in a concerned > way ("isn't that top a bit low cut?") Yea he is 3 and that is close to exactly what my response was to him . He said I like them and went about his business. > > Do you think it would be cute or innapropriate for your > > daughter to wear your work boots? See this is the problem I think . Bev > > Are her feet that big? ;) Seriously, it wouldn't bother me. LOL! hopefully her feet are a bit smaller. > It's been my observation that as children age and interact with their peers > they're likely to conform or be beaten into conformance. It happened when I [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Peer pressure has a way of working on kids, for better or worse, to make > them either conform to "social norms" or survive as outcasts. This is very true , and I am sure kids go through many phases of learning who they are, I have seen teenage boys and girls do some strange things with their hair and clothes . My daughter has always been "different" as have been some of the boys she has introduced me to.I will never forget the one with the green mohawk and the nuts and bolts in his face, I just wish she had warned me just a little before I opened the door to him cause I know the look on my face was priceless! > I'm surviving pretty well as an outcast... > -=RaOuL=- yea me too, but I swear I do not know where my daughter learned to be so elaborate with the hair colors, styles, piercings and tatoos cause I have none at all ! I do not even wear makeup! Bev ---snip--- > glad my memory still works sometimes! Three boys...my brother and wife > just had their 4th boy! YeeHaw!!! Y'know, I didn't notice much difference between 2 and 3 boys here. Still always a ruckus. Still never enough snacks on hand. Adding a 4th probably isn't all that bad. It might lead me to a fifth though... ;) > > > As much as redirection may help side track his attention from the "girl > > > toys" to the "boy toys", do you also think I should redirect my [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > she loves them! We just bought her a little mini quad to tool around on > too! Yikes! In most cases I would defer to the wishes of the parents, but with parents who are so young themselves I'd be tempted to give too much advice and question their wishes.... But there is something cool about playing with the kid's toys - especially a quad! > > > What would you say to a little boy that comes out from the bedroom > > dressed in his [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Yea he is 3 and that is close to exactly what my response was to him . > He said I like them and went about his business. Someday he'll feel differently... > > > Do you think it would be cute or innapropriate for your > > > daughter to wear your work boots? See this is the problem I think . Bev [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > bolts in his face, I just wish she had warned me just a little before I > opened the door to him cause I know the look on my face was priceless! I always wanted to have a green mohawk but never had the guts :( > > I'm surviving pretty well as an outcast... > > -=RaOuL=- [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > have none at all ! I do not even wear makeup! > Bev The hair colors, styles, piercings and tottoos are probably things that are popular with her peers. I didn't get my sense of style (or lack thereof) from my parents, but from my peers. Thankfully, my boys hang around with other boys who have what I would consider "reasonable" style... >As I have mentioned before I babysit my 3 year old grandson. On several >occasions , while he and my grandaughter are playing they play [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > >Bev The parents are overreacting. The boy is 3, not 13. It does not cause gayness or transvestitism. It won't affect his masculine identity development. Boys grow up to be manly men despite our best efforts to socialize them (joke). :-) He barely knows he's a "boy" at this point... and he won't remember dressing up when he's older unless someone takes a picture to embarrass him with later. Here's something you may be able to use to calm the parents down: Children realize that they are male or female and are aware of the gender of others by the age of three. However, at these ages they still do not understand that people cannot change genders the way they can change their clothes, names, or behavior. Kohlberg theorized that children do not learn to behave in gender-appropriate ways until they understand that gender is permanent, which occurs at about the age of seven. At this point they start modeling the behavior of members of their own sex. Try taking out the makeup and dress up stuff earlier in the visit so that you have time to get him cleaned up. 3 year olds get bored pretty quickly and that'll get that over with. And he might not like the cleaning up afterward. 'Kate > The parents are overreacting. The boy is 3, not 13. It does not cause > gayness or transvestitism. It won't affect his masculine identity > development. Boys grow up to be manly men despite our best efforts to > socialize them (joke). :-) Thats what I thought, and the strange thing is is that I see more attention is put on a little boy playing with dolls or girlie toys but little girls get away with the trucks and basketballs without much attention?!?!?! > He barely knows he's a "boy" at this point... and he won't remember > dressing up when he's older unless someone takes a picture to embarrass > him with later. Mari thinks we should take the picture and give it to his parents LOL! I know the trouble that will cause and I will neve see him again......... > Here's something you may be able to use to calm the parents down: > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > quickly and that'll get that over with. And he might not like the > cleaning up afterward. I printed that out Kate thanks! I think I will do just that...early on with the dress up and maybe things will feel more comfortable for me...I really don't want to have a confrontation . The responses that I did receive pretty much reflects how I feel about this. Didn't hear much from the male/daddy side of this though? Guys any thoughts on this? Bev > 'Kate >> The parents are overreacting. The boy is 3, not 13. It does not cause >> gayness or transvestitism. It won't affect his masculine identity [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >little girls get away with the trucks and basketballs without much >attention?!?!?! Being a "tomboy" is ok. Being a "sissy boy" is not. >> He barely knows he's a "boy" at this point... and he won't remember >> dressing up when he's older unless someone takes a picture to embarrass [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >I know the trouble that will cause and I will neve see him >again......... Mari's a troublemaker, isn't she? :-) >> Here's something you may be able to use to calm the parents down: >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >The responses that I did receive pretty much reflects how I feel about >this. Yeah, the kid is pretty normal. If the parents are all that concerned about their son's gender role development, then dad should spend more time with the kid so that he gets a balanced view of masculine and feminine behaviors. Personally, I think the parents don't loosen up a bit, they're going to be in my office in ten years saying, "I don't know what happened. We did everything right. Why isn't he the perfect son?" $120/hr., 3x per week. So.. that's ok with me. :-) 'Kate > >> The parents are overreacting. The boy is 3, not 13. It does not cause > >> gayness or transvestitism. It won't affect his masculine identity [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Being a "tomboy" is ok. Being a "sissy boy" is not. gosh "tomboy" I havent heard that in a long time LOL! > >> He barely knows he's a "boy" at this point... and he won't remember > >> dressing up when he's older unless someone takes a picture to embarrass [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >I know the trouble that will cause and I will neve see him > >again......... > Mari's a troublemaker, isn't she? :-) Uh yes she is as a fact of matter.........I never cause any trouble myself <grin> > >> Here's something you may be able to use to calm the parents down: > >> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > time with the kid so that he gets a balanced view of masculine and > feminine behaviors. > Personally, I think the parents don't loosen up a bit, they're going to > be in my office in ten years saying, "I don't know what happened. We did > everything right. Why isn't he the perfect son?" $120/hr., 3x per week. > So.. that's ok with me. :-) LOL! Hey....I'd have to work a whole 40 hours to make that! Bev > 'Kate >> Mari's a troublemaker, isn't she? :-) > >Uh yes she is as a fact of matter.........I never cause any trouble >myself <grin> I hadn't noticed. <making sure blindfold is secure> >> Personally, I think the parents don't loosen up a bit, they're going to >> be in my office in ten years saying, "I don't know what happened. We did [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >LOL! Hey....I'd have to work a whole 40 hours to make that! >Bev Look like a lot, huh? Seven years of school, an additional year of paid training, and I will still have to pay for licensing fees, professional association memberships, CEU's & conferences, malpractice insurance, office space, advertising, phone and answering service, business equipment, taxes, accountant fees, etc. I see nothing wrong with it at all. Like others have said he is 3 years old! I know a few little boys that have like girl toys (dress up, dolls, barbies and ect.) and they are fine. Example: My cousin is 20 years old and he loved playing with me when we were little there is 2 years between us and he is in college and has a sweet girl in his life and is getting married soon. He loves fast cars, and enjoys fishing and all other things that guys like to do. > As I have mentioned before I babysit my 3 year old grandson. On several > occasions , while he and my grandaughter are playing they play [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > really myself feel it is harmless, but then I have never had a boy to > raise and never have been confronted with this before. I really don't think there's much of a difference at this age in raising boys or girls. I also see no harm in a little boy playing dress up, just as I see no harm in a little girl playing with trucks and GI Joes. > I know his > mother does not want him to play this way , it is not my place to allow [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > grandaughter asks for it , I feel it is something she should not be > denied. As far as I'm concerned, playing is playing, but yes, I see your point of not wanting to go against what Mom says, in the place of Grandma. There's really not much you can do to explain this to a 3 year old. Your granddaughter shouldn't be denied what is hers to play with, but how can you say yes to her but not to your grandson? Do you have "boy" toys around? Would it be possible to take both kids shopping, or just your grandson one day, and have him pick out a special toy that he really wants that he can keep at your house to play with? Maybe taking both kids out to pick out a toy that they can both play with together that stays at Grandmas could be an idea... I don't know what... Just something like a small train set, basketball and net set, maybe even some cars or trucks of some sort. Find something that both can play together. > Then there are the times he finds her dresses and puts them on > himself. Meh. I actually remember when I was about 8 years old, I dressed my little brothers both up in my dresses. That would have made my brothers about 5 and 2, and I put their hair in piggies and bows and they looked so beautiful. My mom's eyes popped right out of her head and she nearly busted a gut laughing and even ran to get the camera. I do remember them agreeing to it, and they even had a good laugh about it. Neither has turned gay today because I made them all pretty when they were younger. Even today, my son will sit with me in the bathroom while I do my hair or something. He wanted his nails painted one day, so I bring out the nail polish and I painted his nails the colors he wanted - purple and red and just one finger blue. When he was about 2 or so, I put him in a set of underwear that I didn't care much for that my grandma bought - because it was a good price - that would never fit her in a million years... So off I go with B to the back room, put on a floral bra and matching panties over his clothes and send him out to see Baba, Grandma and Uncle. My cousin took a picture of it, and we all had a good laugh about it. Last year for B's birthday, my cousin took that picture and made a birthday card for B with that picture on it. Again, we all had a pretty good laugh. For my SON'S first Christmas, I bought him a little doll. It was a little boy doll, and the only person who had a problem with it was my uncle, one of my brothers and my dad didn't care much for it, but you know what? Bran is now so good with his baby sister that it amazes me. He's very gentle and caring and loving, and yet my mom's friend has a son and younger daughter just a bit older than B and Amie, and the boy is so very, very mean to his baby sister. I always told Bran that the doll was like a baby... You have to be very gentle with it, like you would be with a baby. > Please mothers and fathers of boys enlighten me! What should I > or can I do to do the right thing? I myself have no feelings that a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > he refuses to eat or drink out of anything pink or play with anything > pink including pink clothing. Nothing 'turns' someone into a homosexual. It has nothing at all to do with the way a child is or was raised. You cannot just decide you'd like to be gay or not, it's something that isn't controlled, AFAIC, and the only thing, I believe, that will come out of making a little boy despise pink, dolls, whatever it may be, is that they will probably continue this learned behaviour through their childhood and carry it with them as adults. I believe that it could cause a child to believe it is alright to hate, even if it is the color pink or a Barbie. I believe 'Kate suggested above something about trying to let them play whatever they want early in the day and have time to distract him with something else for when Mom gets home. You're NOT hurting him by allowing him to express himself through play. Other than actions and play, there's really not many other ways a child knows how to express themselves at that age. They cannot and do not pick up a pen and write their feelings down. They do not write beautiful poems and make wonderful books about their feelings and emotions. Play is a way that a child can express themselves freely and openly while learning and having fun. > I am upset that people would be so silly to do such a thing to a young > child. I know his Nanny Gayle would have a lot to say to her daughter, > I would be upset to have them pull him away from me if I spoke my mind > about how I feel. > > Bev I agree. Silly really isn't the word I would have used, but it works just fine! ;) Allowing both children to play - be it your grandson playing with the vanity set or your granddaughter playing with the Tonka trucks, there really is no harm at all in that. You might harm a child more by denying what they want when there really is no reason to say no. It's not like you are hurting him or doing something wrong in any way. I really do like 'Kate's suggestion about starting the day off early and letting them play dress-up, or whatever it may be... Maybe you could end the day before Mom comes to get him by sitting both children down at the table to draw and color... Maybe that could be an idea - some sort of art or craft set for both grandchildren... Let them paint and color and draw and glue sparkles on paper at the table half an hour or so before Mom's expected... Then he'll either be in the process of making a ginormous mess on your kitchen table with glue and glitter and crayons, or Mom will walk in to see him helping you clean up the mess he just finished making... Then he'll have something to give to you or Mom for the fridge! I really have no other suggestions right now... I've done everything with my son that would have your grandson's dad doing backflips, and I don't see anything wrong with it at all! They're kids! They love to play, and fantasy is just one of the many ways children develop. Good luck and hopefully you can figure something out!  SignatureA: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet? > I really don't think there's much of a difference at this age in raising > boys or girls. I also see no harm in a little boy playing dress up, just as > I see no harm in a little girl playing with trucks and GI Joes. I agree with you totally. > As far as I'm concerned, playing is playing, but yes, I see your point of > not wanting to go against what Mom says, in the place of Grandma. There's > really not much you can do to explain this to a 3 year old. Your > granddaughter shouldn't be denied what is hers to play with, but how can you > say yes to her but not to your grandson? exactly what I feel, I refuse to be unfair! Do you have "boy" toys around? Hell no! I am a lesbian rofl! ...sorry it was just "there" <grin> Yes trucks motorcycles action figures basketball hoop we have bought these items for my grand daughter as well and he has brought over some of his! > Meh. I actually remember when I was about 8 years old, I dressed my little > brothers both up in my dresses. That would have made my brothers about 5 [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > baby sister. I always told Bran that the doll was like a baby... You have > to be very gentle with it, like you would be with a baby. I agree that introducing a baby doll to a young boy child will develop a nurturing that is important for boys to learn. Why shouldn't boys learn how to handle and nurture a baby ? > Nothing 'turns' someone into a homosexual. It has nothing at all to do with > the way a child is or was raised. You cannot just decide you'd like to be [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > believe that it could cause a child to believe it is alright to hate, even > if it is the color pink or a Barbie. Yea, I agree, It is absurd to teach young children to dislike anything. They are being denied thier own free choice, and in some cases being taught to be predjudiced. > I believe 'Kate suggested above something about trying to let them play > whatever they want early in the day and have time to distract him with [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > feelings and emotions. Play is a way that a child can express themselves > freely and openly while learning and having fun. Yea It makes sense to allow the play, I guess, but even my 2 yr. old grand daughter tells all about what she does throughout a day. He is gonna tell! LOL! Oh well ! Oh boy the messes ! Believe me we are no strangers to that! :) > > I am upset that people would be so silly to do such a thing to a young > > child. I know his Nanny Gayle would have a lot to say to her daughter, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > the vanity set or your granddaughter playing with the Tonka trucks, there > really is no harm at all in that. Silly is not the words I really wanted to use ! We have a very wide assortment of boys and girls toys and "unisex" if you will, as well . It is a shame that anyone would be so damn stupid about this with children so young. Bev As the mother of a boy, I can tell you - it's perfectly normal to want to join in the fun, too. I agree with Kate - he isn't gay, he's not a transvestite, and he isn't going to come to any harm. Whoever is paranoid about the color pink should be seeking their own therapy, if you want my opinion. Actors wear make up routinely - even the male ones! Let him play - I cherish the photos I have when my son did the same thing - looked like a young Liza Minelli. > As I have mentioned before I babysit my 3 year old grandson. On several > occasions , while he and my grandaughter are playing they play [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > Bev > As the mother of a boy, I can tell you - it's perfectly normal to want to > join in the fun, too. I didn't think making a big deal out of it was the right thing for his mom and dad to do. > I agree with Kate - he isn't gay, he's not a transvestite, and he isn't > going to come to any harm. It's certainly not that I think that this type of play could possibly direct a childs sexual orientation. > Whoever is paranoid about the color pink should be seeking their own > therapy, if you want my opinion. I totally agree with you , I was shocked the day I set up the table with bowls and cups for breakfast and he sat there and would not say anything or eat his cereal . When I asked him why he wasn't eating he said I dont like pink ! I never thought about it we have a set of pink bowls and cups that are plastic for the baby. Ask him why he does not like pink and he has no answer . All I said was well pink is a nice color I like it but if you dont like it that is o.k. and I gave him another bowl. > Actors wear make up routinely - even the male ones! yep :) > Let him play - I cherish the photos I have when my son did the same thing - > looked like a young Liza Minelli. I have and will continue to let him play, I just really wish I didn't have to fear his parents coming and catching it. Bev > As I have mentioned before I babysit my 3 year old grandson. On several > occasions , while he and my grandaughter are playing they play [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > Bev Everyone says "He isn't gay or a trans...." So what if he would be??? But they are right, he is to young to know the difference and just wants to play. Why does the parents want to put gender roles into his life? Will they also teach him its not manly to cry? To miss his mommy? That he should beat up other boys?? Grrr. There was an excellent book I read about boys and men and how they are raised. Damn if I can't remember what it is called but when it comes to me, I will post it. Tiff >> As I have mentioned before I babysit my 3 year old grandson. On several >> occasions , while he and my grandaughter are playing they play [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > >Everyone says "He isn't gay or a trans...." So what if he would be??? The parents would blame Bev. Judging by the haircut and rules about the color pink and the hairdo, the parents are not thrilled with the idea of their son being homosexual, etc. The parents are wack. :-) >Why does the parents want to put gender roles into his life? Will they also >teach him its not manly to cry? To miss his mommy? That he should beat up >other boys?? Probably so. And he'll turn into a serial killer full of resentment for his parents but at least he won't be homosexual. Who knew there were parents like that still. 'Kate > >Everyone says "He isn't gay or a trans...." So what if he would be??? > > The parents would blame Bev. Judging by the haircut and rules about the > color pink and the hairdo, the parents are not thrilled with the idea of > their son being homosexual, etc. The parents are wack. :-) Yea they are wack, I am at a loss with this, maybe accepting your mom was a lesbian is easier.for my step daughter than to accept her son would be gay. This is pretty common actually....for some odd ball reason many people especially men have no problem with lesbians but gay men flip them out........ > >Why does the parents want to put gender roles into his life? Will they also > >teach him its not manly to cry? To miss his mommy? That he should beat up [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Who knew there were parents like that still. .....he kicks animals, and needs to be watched closely with them. He is violent and very rough in play as well. When he first came to us we almost said "sorry" and decided that maybe what really was best for him was if we worked with him.He has been from babysitter to babysitter since he was an infant. I thought maybe he had security issues or maybe out of wack with no set schedule or consistency. He has come a long way since when we first got him and I know most of his behaviours are taught. There are two people in his household that punch, kick and beat the dogs, he violently goes after his sister 10 if she says no to him or takes something away he should not have. We had a very hard time when this all began, to a point I did discuss his violent and belligerant behavior. He would totally ignore instruction . His mother said to smack his butt. We did time out we talked and explained we removed him from the rest of the activity to get his attention and finally I spent two days smacking his butt when nothing else worked and I have not had to smack his butt since ! It worked...I hated it but it worked. He is changing nicely with us and I know he needs what he is getting with us, he has a consistent routine and has learned what his behavior needs to be here. His father is a functioning alcoholic and i know he has puched walls and kicked in the front door at least twice and that my other two older grandkids (14 and 10) are afraid of him "he is not their dad" This has been going on a very long time and I have discussed this with Gayle's daughter and she says "he is not an alcoholic" he just drinks a little too much sometimes"........They are getting married next year I know the kids are unhappy and all I can do is have them to my place as often as possible to give them a safe place to be and a break from "HOME" It is really sad. What stinks is that I know if I make to big a wave here the kids will be pulled away from me, I do not know if I have any legal rights with this and I really just want to be a part of their lives like I should be. Bev > 'Kate >> >Everyone says "He isn't gay or a trans...." So what if he would be??? >> [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] >I have not had to smack his butt since ! It worked...I hated it but it >worked. Don't feel bad about it. The parents set him up so that all he would listen to was the spanking. It won't hurt him down the line. He'll never remember that but he will remember being shunned by his peers in school if he doesn't learn to play nice and control his behavior. > He is changing nicely with us and I know he needs what he is >getting with us, he has a consistent routine and has learned what his [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >discussed this with Gayle's daughter and she says "he is not an >alcoholic" he just drinks a little too much sometimes"........ <sigh> >They are >getting married next year I know the kids are unhappy and all I can do [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >I do not know if I have any legal rights with this and I really just >want to be a part of their lives like I should be. Welcome to the wonderful world of stay-at-home parenting/grandparenting. We get all the kids who have horrid home lives... they're drawn to homes that are less emotionally volitile. I can't count the number of kids who have lived under my roof from time to time... kids whose parents were getting divorced (or should be), kids whose parents don't bother asking where they are or care that they've been with me for months... kids who are hungry, kids who don't have a bed to sleep in because mom and the boyfriend are in the bedroom of a very small apartment. Here, cultural differences seem to come into play more often than not. This area is 90% Mexican/American and it's taken me awhile to understand that the children can run around in a grocery store with other kids... the village concept permits that. It's ok for male Mexican/American teens to be off on their own as long as *someone* is taking care of them. White America sees children out of control and neglectful parents. heh. Tangent alert. Anyway... no wonder that father drinks if he's been raised by parents with very rigid rules about behavior. I'll bet he has some interesting conversations in his head. 'Kate >>> As I have mentioned before I babysit my 3 year old grandson. On several >>> occasions , while he and my grandaughter are playing they play [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > > 'Kate There are tons of parents just like that unfortunately. I still haven't thought of the name of that book. Bet you read it though.... lol! Tiff > Everyone says "He isn't gay or a trans...." So what if he would be??? I certainly am not predjudice! I believe what everyone is meaning is that this dress up play is not indicating that the little guy will turn out to be. > But they are right, he is to young to know the difference and just wants to > play. absolutely what I feel , I am torn by permitting it knowing his parents do not approve. > Why does the parents want to put gender roles into his life? Will they also > teach him its not manly to cry? To miss his mommy? That he should beat up > other boys?? unfortunately I think you have hit it on the head there. > Grrr. There was an excellent book I read about boys and men and how they are > raised. Damn if I can't remember what it is called but when it comes to me, > I will post it. Thank you Tiff :) Bev > Tiff > Why does the parents want to put gender roles into his life? Will they > also teach him its not manly to cry? To miss his mommy? That he should [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Tiff Please do, I'd be interested in reading it. Christine >> Why does the parents want to put gender roles into his life? Will they >> also teach him its not manly to cry? To miss his mommy? That he should [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Christine I wish I could think of it! GRR! T > As I have mentioned before I babysit my 3 year old grandson. On several > occasions , while he and my grandaughter are playing they play [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > Bev My sons used to play with my makeup, wear my clothing and my high heels at that age. Would they do that now??? Hell no! lol It's just a phase and they're over-reacting about the whole thing. He's not going to have identity issues just because he's mimicking women. Geez. Christine >Then there are the times he finds her dresses and puts them on > himself. All boys do this if they are around other children doing the same. The also put on makeup. No doubt about it, the boy is gay. Personally I blame all these hetrosexual couples like his parents for bringing them into the world. Dennis > >Then there are the times he finds her dresses and puts them on > > himself. > > All boys do this if they are around other children doing the same. The > also put on makeup. Yes they do and it is harmless. > No doubt about it, the boy is gay. Who knows? I think he is too young to have that kind of feelings about himseIf . Just like my grandaughter thinks she can stand up and pee at 2 years old , they are curious ,innocent, and just beggining to learn the differences between boys and girls. I'll love them the same no matter who they grow up to love. :) > Personally I blame all these hetrosexual couples like his parents for > bringing them into the world. Well, surely you jest, considering homosexual AND heterosexual men and women do manage to have biological children that are not gay. Again, surely, I hope you are trying to be funny on some sick humour level that some people can accept. I personally do not find it funny to reject a child because of being gay, it exists on a very large scale, "Neanderthals" need to face it and God help their own children. There IS no one to blame. Oh well........ I did wonder if anyone had a different view on the subject, I asked for thoughts and opinions , thanks for yours. Bev > Dennis > > Personally I blame all these hetrosexual couples like his parents for > > bringing them into the world. > > Well, surely you jest, considering homosexual AND heterosexual men and > women do manage to have biological children that are not gay. My point entirely. Again, > surely, I hope you are trying to be funny on some sick humour level > that some people can accept. I personally do not find it funny to > reject a child because of being gay, it exists on a very large scale, > "Neanderthals" need to face it and God help their own children. There > IS no one to blame. Oh well........ Yeah, thats why I usually don't bother replying to your posts Dennis > > > Personally I blame all these hetrosexual couples like his parents for > > > bringing them into the world. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > My point entirely. O.K. > Again, > > surely, I hope you are trying to be funny on some sick humour level [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Yeah, thats why I usually don't bother replying to your posts That's O.K. as well, just my opinion on the subject I brought up. I was asking for parents opinions of what my grandsons parents felt about his dress up play. You chose to comment on something else, you baited , I bit, I'm still learning about people around here, wont make the same mistake again. Sorry for the inconvenience. Bev > Dennis Dennis, When I first typed this reply I was kinda upset that first I felt your comments such as "No doubt about it the boy is gay" and "you blame the parents for bringing "THEM" into the world" as negative sarcasm and because this thread was brought on by a issue I was facing with my grandsons parents ( that does personally upset me) that you were deliberatly disrespecting me. So if this was not your intended purpose for your post then I apologise, it gets hard to understand sometimes just what someone is trying to express in type. What I post here is only my own opinions and thoughts and feelings which of course are not always going to chime in with everyone , maybe no one , I can misunderstand what a comment meant and sometimes I may not clearly get my point across the way I meant it to be understood, but at the same time I do get something from my interaction here, I don't forget when I first dropped by here for a little chat and how that went downhill. I will try to be less defensive, that is something I am still learning in life. So I just wanted to clarify that if I misunderstood, then I owe you an apology, and I truly do mean it. Bev > > > > Personally I blame all these hetrosexual couples like his parents for > > > > bringing them into the world. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Bev > > Dennis > Dennis, When I first typed this reply I was kinda upset that first I > felt your comments such as "No doubt about it the boy is gay" and "you [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > you an apology, and I truly do mean it. > Bev Being less defensive and reactive is a good thing because really, what was the point of this? Why do you care what someone on the internet thinks? Oi. Christine PS: Dennis, you're a master-baiter. lol <snip> > Being less defensive and reactive is a good thing because really, what was > the point of this? Why do you care what someone on the internet thinks? > Oi. Perhaps being less antagonistic would be a good thing, too - all those someone's on the internet are actually real people, with concerns and feelings, and all the rest. > Christine > > PS: Dennis, you're a master-baiter. lol > <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > someone's on the internet are actually real people, with concerns and > feelings, and all the rest. Moonshyne, I agree with what you posted. I am as guilty as the next of losing sight of the respect, and using the power and safety of the keyboard and the "internet" to mistreat people. I care to make an effort to change. Bev > > Christine > > > > PS: Dennis, you're a master-baiter. lol >> <snip> >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > and the "internet" to mistreat people. I care to make an effort to > change. (psst, Bev - it wasn't necessarily directed at you) :-) > Bev >> > >> > Christine >> > >> > PS: Dennis, you're a master-baiter. lol > >> <snip> > >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > :-) :-) yea, I know what you are saying......I wanted to just say that I agreed and I'm not a little miss innocent, but thanks for caring to make sure I understood. <grin> Bev > > Bev > >> > > >> > Christine > >> > > >> > PS: Dennis, you're a master-baiter. lol > > Dennis, When I first typed this reply I was kinda upset that first I > > felt your comments such as "No doubt about it the boy is gay" and "you [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > PS: Dennis, you're a master-baiter. lol Christine, I care to answer you about your questions. The point of my clarification was for me to explain to Dennis my response to him and how I feel after rereading everything that maybe I did in fact misunderstand and that I wanted to apologise, nothing more nothing less. Why do I care what someone on the internet thinks? I care about my own behavior towords anyone, as much as many feel this is not real life and in many situations they may be right for themselves and how they use the internet. I use the internet in many different ways. I have learned that sometimes good things can happen between people on the internet.I found" Mari the person that made my "real life" more complete on the internet. I have found many interesting and knowledgeable people to interact with. In this group I have found some peace of mind in my real life, I value that, and I value the people that share what they know to help others. Since being involved with online classes, I have met many people that I share interests with and my classmates share valuable advice and critique of my work. Without respect and learning to accept constructive critiqing from others nothing can be learned. One of the first lessons you learn when participating in an online classroom is that it is very difficult sometimes to read someones point or meaning in typed words because they lack the facial expression and tone of voice that in a face to face conversation helps you to determine the sincerity or emotion involved. I myself do not participate in this group to disrespect people. I felt I may have ended up direspecting him because of misunderstanding the meaning in his words. If that be true , then what I care about is that when I am wrong an apology is in order. It takes real people to type the words we read in groups, IM's, and in chat rooms on the internet. Bev One of the > first lessons you learn when participating in an online classroom is > that it is very difficult sometimes to read someones point or meaning > in typed words because they lack the facial expression and tone of > voice that in a face to face conversation helps you to determine the > sincerity or emotion involved. Then perhaps asking for clarification, instead of reacting would be in order. That or glossing over what someone says, instead of dignifying it with a response. JMO Christine > One of the > > first lessons you learn when participating in an online classroom is [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Christine ...........and a very good opinion indeed! I think I will try and do just that, Thanks Christine. Bev This play is harmless and is just a phase. Let him get it out of his system, or he will be more likely to experiment when he is a teen. Which is worse, wearing a lipstick now or when he is a teen? SignatureSig: Say no to fixed width HTML tables. They look terrible in most browsers. > This play is harmless and is just a phase. Let him get it out of his > system, or he will be more likely to experiment when he is a teen. > Which is worse, wearing a lipstick now or when he is a teen? ummm... neither? I'm sorry ... but *why* would it be *Wrong* when he is a teen? ok... I really need to stay out of this thread... I really need to stay out of this thread... I really need to stay out of this thread... I really need to stay out of this thread... I really need to stay out of this thread... thats better. z > > This play is harmless and is just a phase. Let him get it out of his > > system, or he will be more likely to experiment when he is a teen. > > Which is worse, wearing a lipstick now or when he is a teen? > > ummm... neither? I guess it really is society that has limited what some feel is o.k. for a boy. "Different " is accepted more than Gay. > I'm sorry ... but *why* would it be *Wrong* when he is a teen? I truly think if I were to encounter a teen boy with ruby red lipstick and pink nail polish my eyebrow may raise , but in amusement of his individuality. I would not immediately say "Oh he is gay" and if he was it would not mean a thing to me. I kinda understand the judgement of people is pretty normal for some, I have had the smirks and whispers happen to me in an auto parts store.....It does not compute to some people that there just may be women that enjoy working on cars and do not worry to be seen with a hand full of grease in her hair or under her fingernails. I surely am not going to go inside and shower and clean up to go get a part I need! I do not feel that this hobby of mine is what should classify my sexuality, but I see it all the time, and I am amused by the ignorance! > ok... > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I really need to stay out of this thread... > I really need to stay out of this thread... Yea I may get to this point eventually as well, ya know "it's all fun and games for some people until someone loses an eye" I did bring a serious issue to the group, I hope it does not lose respect. Bev > thats better. > > z On Thu, 5 Jan 2006 15:00:58 -0000 in article <1136473270.1510.0 @spandrell.news.uk.clara.net>, me@privacy.net spoke thusly... > > This play is harmless and is just a phase. Let him get it out of his > > system, or he will be more likely to experiment when he is a teen. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I'm sorry ... but *why* would it be *Wrong* when he is a teen? I didn't say it was wrong. But as a teen he would be severely ridiculed by peers and it would be even harder for the parents to find him like that as a teen. Because in today's society, being deviant (different) implies mental dysfunction. SignatureSig: Say no to fixed width HTML tables. They look terrible in most browsers. >On Thu, 5 Jan 2006 15:00:58 -0000 in article <1136473270.1510.0 >@spandrell.news.uk.clara.net>, me@privacy.net spoke thusly... [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >peers and it would be even harder for the parents to find him like that as a >teen. OMG.. not true. I've had boys over here with black eyeliner and lipstick... it's not a big deal. >Because in today's society, being deviant (different) implies mental >dysfunction. It does? huh. I guess that depends on where you live and how uptight people are there. 'Kate > This play is harmless and is just a phase. Let him get it out of his system, > or he will be more likely to experiment when he is a teen. Which is worse, > wearing a lipstick now or when he is a teen? I feel it is quite harmless as well, having the opportunity to meet some of my daughters teen boy "friends" I have also been introduced to "Goth" which the boys do wear makeup! mostly black lipstick , black nail polish, and eyeliner........... > -- > Sig: Say no to fixed width HTML tables. They look terrible in most browsers. So how is everyone today? :-) I thought I would share how today's play session went with my grandson. I had him alone today and yes he went into my grand daughters room and helped himself to the purple Tu Tu and Balliet slippers along with the dangle earings and came out to show me while I was in the kitchen slaving :) anyway, I said wow ! you look like you are having a good time, he replied yes, I then said , now you know mommy and daddy really rather you not play with those things and he said I like it, it's a costume. I said yep you are absolutely right and we both went about our business. I have to say at three he has more sence than his parents on this LOL! Just dropped my daughter and her bestest friend off in Allentown at Crockadile rock for a concert of some local bands they are following.... something called Emo ? LOL! anyway I asked if I could get a ticket and stay with them and my daughter almost fainted............Oh well, here I sit till I get the P/U call, me and the Bulldog, seems it is me and that dog a lot lately. Bev >So how is everyone today? :-) I thought I would share how today's play >session went with my grandson. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >business. I have to say at three he has more sence than his parents on >this LOL! Thankfully, someone in their house knows something about raising children. :-) >Just dropped my daughter and her bestest friend off in Allentown at >Crockadile rock for a concert of some local bands they are [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >the Bulldog, seems it is me and that dog a lot lately. >Bev Ah yes, the life of the mother of teen. 'Kate > So how is everyone today? :-) I thought I would share how today's play > session went with my grandson. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > the Bulldog, seems it is me and that dog a lot lately. > Bev If you don't understand what is meant by EMO, you might want to ask em. IT may mean different things in different area's but emo bands are typically the ones that sing about depression and suicide and cutting. I have listen to lyrics that would make you cry by these emo bands. Just keep an eye out. Teens.... yeah. T > If you don't understand what is meant by EMO, you might want to ask em. Emo is short for Emotion or Emotional. The music is sort of new age punk rock - and while yes, some of it is more depression oriented (for lack of a better phrase), not all it. Truthfully, I much prefer Emo to the rap crap my son listens to. > If you don't understand what is meant by EMO, you might want to ask em. IT > may mean different things in different area's but emo bands are typically [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > T This is actually a pretty good site to explain Emo, and the sorts of music it encompases http://www.fourfa.com/ > > If you don't understand what is meant by EMO, you might want to ask em. IT > > may mean different things in different area's but emo bands are typically [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > > > T Moonshyne and Tiff, Thanks for responding to the Emo question. This is indeed kinda new for my daughter, she flies in and out of interests. I get to listen to the CD's she brings home from these concerts and I must say it runs from interesting to annoying ! LOL! We have definately been through some different styles of "Music" I can remember when Eminem first came to my house and I told her if I hear it I will wing it out the window like a frisbee. I have since heard some of his stuff that I actually like . Music is a wonderful thing. I did check out the website on the Emo and found it quite interesting thanks again. Bev > This is actually a pretty good site to explain Emo, and the sorts of music > it encompases > > http://www.fourfa.com/ |
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