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Family Forum / Parenting / Spanking / December 2004



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Spanking & Slavery

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Chris - 06 Dec 2004 01:03 GMT
    There are numerous parallels between the justifications advanced
in defense of slavery in the 19th century, and the justifications advanced
in defense of spanking.

    Both proslavers and prospankers have claimed that God is on their
side and that the Bible sanctions what they do.  Prospankers like to cite
Proverbs 13:24.  Proslavers liked to cite Leviticus 25:44-46.

    Both proslavers and prospankers have used propertarian arguments
to defend what they do.  "They are MY slaves!  I paid good money for them
and I am not going to let some &#%$ abolitionists tell me what to do with
MY property!" / "They are MY kids!  I brought them into this world and I
am not going to let some &#%$ psychobabbling liberals tell me I can't hit
them!"

    Both proslavers and prospankers have argued that Africans/children
are in some way "different" from the rest of humanity and that this
justifies treating them in ways which would be unacceptable if done to
anyone else.

    Both proslavers and prospankers argue from authority, pointing to
famous people who either owned slaves or spanked.  Rev. John Saffin
defended slavery by noting that the biblical Abraham owned slaves:  
"...our Imitation of him in this Moral Action is as warrantable as that
of [adopting] his Faith... God set different Orders and Degrees of Men in
the World... some to be High and Honorable, some to be Low and
Despicable.  Servants of sundry sorts and degrees, bound to obey; yea,
some to be born Slave, and so to remain during their lives."

    Both proslavers and prospankers have argued that slavery/spanking
is for the victims' own good.  Proslavers invoked the concept of
"Ennoblement of the Heathen," arguing that the life of a slave in American
was better that than freedom their native Africa, since as a slave, the
African would be exposed to "Christian influences."


Chris

REFERENCE

Tise, L.E.  1988.  _Proslavery: A History of the Defense of Slavery in
America_. Univ. of Georgia Press: Athens GA.
Greegor - 08 Dec 2004 21:45 GMT
Golly, seems like FOSTER CARE would make
a much better comparison, what with the
financial incentives for the CPS agencies and all!

And the genocidal effects of removing children
from their family...

And the childs longing to be reunited with family...

TOO BAD THE CASEWORKER WAS BIASED
AGAINST ALL SPANKING and since spanking
is legal, had to LIE to make the case!

Which is worse, spanking or REMOVAL?
Ask Kane to cite the research comparing
the harm done by each!
Kane - 09 Dec 2004 03:43 GMT
>Golly, seems like FOSTER CARE would make
>a much better comparison, what with the
>financial incentives for the CPS agencies and all!

Foster parents, in almost every state, are forbidden to spank. The
comparison wouldn't wash. So children in foster care don't produce
money or get stripes on their backs, legally.

>And the genocidal effects of removing children
>from their family...

Have you read the stats an DHHS nncanch/acf greegor? It's parents
killing their children that's the problem.

>And the childs longing to be reunited with family...

A whipped dog will crawl whining to it's master, if only to be hit
again, for the attention. A child, even after they are grown, because
of the parental connections, is unable to sort out what has been done
to them.

>TOO BAD THE CASEWORKER WAS BIASED
>AGAINST ALL SPANKING and since spanking
>is legal, had to LIE to make the case!

I didn't seen mention of a caseworker in Chris' post. Can you point out
to me where you connected that statement to his post?

>Which is worse, spanking or REMOVAL?

Sometimes one, sometimes the other. It depends on the effect on the
child. Personally I'm being pursuaded, and you are helping, that any
spanking, as long as it is any deliberate infliction of pain, warps the
child for life.

Very likely in ways we currently see the human condition as "normal,"
but in fact is extremely dangerous to our survival.

>Ask Kane to cite the research comparing
>the harm done by each!

Your claim, your proof. That's the rule here. On the rare occasions I
back your play, greegor, it usually doesn't come out your way. Haven't
you noticed?

In this particular comparison you'll find the data isn't all in as yet.
A lot of research remains to be done, but each year we come closer to
seeing the terrible harm done to human beings as children by the use of
pain and humiliation. Fear.

The physiological research is being greately advanced on this issue, as
we learn to scan the brain in action under stimuli. Fear is NOT a good
promotor of healthy human development, it's turning out. We learn
poorly, or even learn what was not the intent. Survival skills learning
over  and at the expense of social skills learning will result in
disintegration of humankind.

History shows us the gross examples, while individuals show us the
ground level person by person corruption.

You are an example of that. You can hardly post to the content of the
one you reply to. You lose the point...your own...as much as you miss
their's.

Kane
Greegor - 16 Dec 2004 22:37 GMT
Kane, You learned to be a devious manipulator.
Telling lies and using deception are your pattern.

disintegration of humankind?

Is that the one called "Omega Man" with Charlton Heston?   :)

Could it be that liars and devious people might
have something to do with the
"disintegration of humankind"?
Kane - 18 Dec 2004 01:17 GMT
> Kane, You learned to be a devious manipulator.
> Telling lies and using deception are your pattern.

RR R R R ...notice: you once more snipped all my post.

How direct and honest is that? How honest. How deceptive.

And have you not done this for many a long year? As a "pattern?"

> disintegration of humankind?

What a phrase with no subject? Nothing but a verb, a conjuntion, and a
noun? Or is humankind the subject, and is destintegration a noun?

See why the language needs to have at least a little care given? It's
deceptive to post in Fernism's, which is what you just did.

> Is that the one called "Omega Man" with Charlton Heston?   :)

No, that was caused by a viral or bacterial disease. Your memory is as
bad as your grammar. And it was fiction. I'm not dealing in fiction
here. I'm dealing what nutcases that believe the ignorant dangerous
things they post.

> Could it be that liars and devious people might
> have something to do with the
> "disintegration of humankind"?

Yes. Most decidedly. Thank you for making my point.

Now...it's your turn.

Normal folks, that aren't devious and dishonest, would immediately post
a series of proofs to support their claim.

So of course, being the trusting naive sort I am, I expect you do to
so.

How soon can we expect your proof that I lie, and that I'm
devious...malevolently? (I do like to trick you for fun...but it's all
with the kindest heart and noble purpose...you seem to be one of those
that require a great deal of asskicking to just wake up.)

Would you like me to respond with some of the lies of you and your
cronies? I've posted proofs before, but heck, it's going to be a lazy
long weekend. I won't feel put out running up a few quotes from old
posts of mine, and yours, and his, and his, and hers.

Intent to deceive is one of the definitions of lying. I've already
admitted I conceal one of my names, the birth name, behind my nom
d'electrinique which doubles as my business name in various parts of
the western Pacific and asia. So please, don't try to get me on a
technicality. I am open and above board about doing it, and have what I
think most people would say is ample cause for caution.

I don't try to deceive anyone about it.

And I have business cards with the name Pohakuyakokane on it, as well
as my Chinese name, Fah Dahmo. Neither one will bring you to my front
door though.

And my Islander name will, if you make enough inquiries, take you to
the door of a number of Samoan friends of mine. You know any Samoans?
Very loyal to friends and family. Cried all over me at our last parting
about a year or so ago. Great party people, and I love'em.

Lovely people and beeeeeg...reeeeeal beeeeeg.

You little pipsqueak. Wha make y'tink you tret'n me, eh, bruddah?

Kane
Greegor - 22 Dec 2004 02:27 GMT
I thought you named yourself after a HORSE?
 
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