Family Forum / Parenting / Spanking / November 2006

That's going to work really well for molesters, Greg. All they have to
do is frighten the child sufficiently, which of course they already work
hard at. And the child won't be able to testify in court.

And without an eye witness the physical forensics could be claimed to
have done "by anyone." How convenient.

Oh goody, just like justice in some Muslim countries, were a women can't
bring charges against a man for rape unless she has four male eye
witnesses.

Cute.

Now a child that claims they were molested will be ignored. Just what
you boys wanted, isn't it Greg?

So now if a child accuses a parent of abuse they are breaking the law?

Gee, things are improving so for children in this country.

You obviously care so much for kids that you'd celebrate this. Right?

0:->

It is bound to be challenged, Greg, since other courts have found
otherwise.

I find it more than passing amusing when one of your "legal expert"
twits runs across a single instance of some finding and insists "the
world has now changed in our favor."

You have not bothered to read the findings of other courts, now have
you, Greg?

For instance:

http://www.nccourts.org/Citizens/GAL/Documents/LocalNews/galattorneynewsletterju
nejuly2005.pdf

... Confrontation Inapplicable in Civil Abuse, Neglect & Dependency Cases
In re D.R., No. COA04-953 (August 2, 2005)
Deana Fleming, GAL Associate Counsel
The Court of Appeals published the opinion In the matter of D.R. on
August 2, 2005 and specifically held that the Sixth Amendment right to
confrontation does not apply in civil juvenile abuse, neglect and
dependency proceedings. Although there was already a strong argument
that a respondent to a juvenile petition did not have the right to
confront his or her accuser, the issue was a case of first impression
for North Carolina appellate courts since the United States Supreme
Court’s ruling in Crawford v. Washington, 541 U.S. 36 (2004).

How could this be true, you might ask, Greg.

Well, you still can't sort out criminal from civil cases, that's how.

And that is how this cut and paste you offered will be challenged, IF it
is a civil case. Does Kentucky try TPRs in a civil court, or a criminal
court?

Well, one issue in some states in determining in which kind of court
such cases will be tried is whether or not criminal charges are part of
the argument of the state.

In the cited case, I'd say, yes, sexual abuse IS a criminal charge.

Here is more from the citation I've offered above (you folks have still
not learned that grasping at straws is NOT equivalent to 'thinking':

And you don't think:

...the issue was a case of first impression for North Carolina appellate
courts since the United States Supreme Court’s ruling in Crawford v.
Washington, 541 U.S. 36 (2004).

Crawford v. Washington
Crawford was a criminal case in which the defendant was tried for
assault and attempted murder. The facts of the case involve the
defendant and his wife going to the victim’s apartment because of an
earlier incident in which the wife asserted the victim attempted to rape
her. ...

Oh, the case cited by the case YOU offered here, was a CRIMINAL CASE. We
all know that some states and some circumstances do not allow for
hearsay into evidence.

But, dear child, IF it is a civil case, it would be rare that such
evidence, given it being by credible witnesses, would NOT be allowed.

So what we have here, again, Greg, is YOUR carelessness in your frantic
effort to scramble out of the slime pit, once again, that YOU created
for yourself by running your mouth without thinking.

An obvious ploy to avoid the two questions now on the table in these
newsgroups.

Did Dan in fact get kicked out of parental rights support groups for
justifiable cause (or are you just arguing that someone got their little
a.ses burned and begged to have him removed because they were WRONG?)
and of course, what are you going to do about giving extremely dangerous
advice, legal advice, to someone to break the law to force a
confrontation with the state, in court, in a case she was already winning?

Come on, Greg. You can't avoid this forever.

You've seen what dishonest childishness does to those that come here
with stupidity and lies, and what making an honest mistake does IF ONE
ADMITS TO IT LIKE A MAN.

Or figures out how to argue his position logically, truthfully, and
honestly.

You have choices...and all you can do is take the most unethical and
childish way out...run run run...with evasions, like Doan does and has
tried to make a profession out of it.

Don't be a child any longer. Admit you were wrong, in both instances,
apologize, and get on with your life with a tad bit more credibility and
personal pride.

You can do it, Man, really, you can.

Try, try hard.

0:->

I know a propaganda worded piece when I see it, and omissions are the
name of the game for these blogger thugs.

Notice the line, and what's missing: "Hearsay Statements by DCFS Are
Inadmissable."

Notice it carefully does NOT say what the circumstances are...what kind
of court, what kind of trial.

In other words, they make a claim that is already WELL KNOWN, WITH JUST
ANOTHER RULING OF THE SAME AS ALWAYS.

DCFS "hearsay" has never been "admissible" in criminal cases, stupid.

Though doubtless there might be exceptions in states where it's possible.

Try again.

Be a man.

Don't run from the two questions you are avoiding now.

0:->

.....snip as answered in prior posts.....

There are many reasons "hearsay" may not be admissible in a child
protection case, Greg. But the one that is NOT a reason is that it's
simply ruled out because it's hearsay.

Try some educational efforts for a change, or stay as lazy and ignorant
as you have been for all these years, and preserve your own sense of
"righteousness."

http://www.childabuselaw.info/lawnews/decisions.htm

....snip....already responded to....

So, Greg, did you bother to read the actual finding, and the case
content, or did you simply take this blogger's word for how it all went
down?

You sure are a sucker.

So tell us, Greg, do you wish the children dead before society through
the state can intervene?

http://162.114.92.72/COA/2004-CA-001979.pdf

RENDERED: JULY 22, 2005; 10:00 A.M.
TO BE PUBLISHED
Commonwealth Of Kentucky
Court of Appeals
NO. 2004-CA-001979-ME
A.G.G. APPELLANT
APPEAL FROM BARREN CIRCUIT COURT
v. HONORABLE W. MITCHELL NANCE, JUDGE
ACTION NO. 03-AD-00018
COMMONWEALTH OF KENTUCKY,
CABINET FOR HEALTH AND FAMILY
SERVICES APPELLEE
AND: NO. 2004-CA-002032-ME
W.E.G. APPELLANT
APPEAL FROM BARREN CIRCUIT COURT
v. HONORABLE W. MITCHELL NANCE, JUDGE
ACTION NO. 03-AD-00018
COMMONWEALTH OF KENTUCKY,
CABINET FOR HEALTH AND FAMILY
SERVICES APPELLEE
OPINION
VACATING AND REMANDING
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** ** ** ** **
BEFORE: BARBER, AND SCHRODER, JUDGES; HUDDLESTON, SENIOR JUDGE.1
SCHRODER, JUDGE: These appeals2 decide that a child’s statements
elicited by a counselor during a sexual abuse assessment and in
therapy sessions, and by a physician during a sexual abuse
examination, were testimonial evidence and therefore
inadmissible at trial, under the recent United States Supreme
Court case of Crawford v. Washington, 541 U.S. 36, 124 S. Ct.
1354, 158 L. Ed. 2d 177 (2004), where the child did not testify
at trial and there was no prior opportunity for crossexamination.
Accordingly, we vacate and remand for further
proceedings consistent with this opinion.
This case arises from proceedings in the Barren
Circuit Court which terminated the parental rights of A.G.G. and
W.E.G. A.G.G. and W.E.G. were married in 1994, and are the
parents (A.G.G. is the mother and W.E.G. is the father) of two
children, N.G., born June 15, 1996, and A.G., born January 7,
2001. Both A.G.G. and W.E.G. are considered disabled, due to
mental limitations (described in the proceedings as lower
intellectual functioning). It was undisputed that the family
lives in poverty. The family has been involved with the Cabinet
1 Senior Judge Joseph R. Huddleston sitting as Special Judge by
assignment of
the Chief Justice pursuant to Section 110 (5)(b) of the Kentucky
Constitution
and KRS 21.580.
2 Two separate appeals heard together.
-3-
for Families and Children (the Cabinet) on and off since 1996,
shortly after N.G.’s birth, relating to neglect. A.G.G. and
W.E.G. completed parenting classes in 1998. In December, 2001,
the Cabinet received an allegation of environmental neglect.
Case worker Karla Norman subsequently visited the family’s
residence, a rented mobile home, and found it to be unsafe. Her
immediate concern was that the mobile home was being heated with
a stove in an unsafe manner. The home also had broken windows,
exposed wires, holes in the ceiling and floors, was roach
infested, and was very dirty. The children and their clothes
were dirty. Everyone had poor personal hygiene. A.G.G. and
W.E.G. fixed the heating source and covered the wiring, but
failed to make other necessary repairs and improvements.
Environmental neglect was substantiated in February, 2002. The
children were not removed, and Norman testified that she felt
comfortable leaving the children in the home at that time -
there was no indication of alcohol, drugs, or domestic violence,
and the children expressed no fear of their parents. In March,
2002, the case was transferred to social worker Erin Morgan.
As did other Cabinet workers in this case, Morgan
testified that, in attempting home visits, she rarely found
A.G.G. and W.E.G. at their own home, more often finding them,
along with the children, at W.E.G.’s parents’ home, which also
had deplorable living conditions. Also residing with W.E.G.’s
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parents, and of relevance to this case, were W.E.G.’s brothers
J.G. and E.G. Morgan first found A.G.G. at her own home on
April 4, 2002. She observed the home to have roaches, clutter,
and a bad smell. Morgan instructed A.G.G. on specific cleaning
and hygiene matters. She also referred the family to the family
preservation program. A.G.G. and W.E.G. complied with, and did
well in, the program (which is limited to six weeks) and
conditions improved during this time. Subsequently, however,
the conditions deteriorated. In a July, 2002, home visit,
Morgan found feces around the toilet and dried vomit on the
floor. Roaches were found in A.G.’s nebulizer. The unsanitary
conditions in the home continued and worsened, which were
described to include roach infestation, filth, clutter, bad
odor, and mice feces in the kitchen cabinets. The children were
continually observed to be filthy.3
Morgan also continued to find the family at W.E.G.’s
parents’ residence, in violation of a June, 2002, court order
that the children have no contact with W.E.G.’s father.4 A.G.G.
and W.E.G. also failed to follow other parts of their case plan,
which included counseling and sending the children to day care
and/or kindergarten.
3 Morgan testified that she did not know if A.G.G.’s and W.E.G.’s inability
to keep the skills learned in the family preservation program was due to
their mental limitations or lack of motivation.
4 The reason for this court order was not explained at the hearing.
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A.G.G. and W.E.G. failed to make any substantial
progress, and, in October, 2002, the children were removed and
placed in the custody of the Cabinet for neglect. A.G.G. and
W.E.G. were given supervised visitation.
N.G. and A.G. were placed in foster care on October
17, 2002, at which time N.G. was six years old and A.G. was
twenty-one months old. The foster mother testified that the
children and their clothes were very dirty when they arrived.
The foster mother (as did Morgan) described N.G. as being very
far behind in schooling, and that he did not know the alphabet
or how to count. She described A.G. as “hyper” and aggressive.
She testified that the children used curse words, and engaged in
what she considered inappropriate behavior such as passing gas
and burping at the table. The foster mother later observed
sexual behavior. In January, 2003, she observed that A.G. would
reach toward his rectum when she changed his diaper and tell her
to “look” and she thought this was abnormal. A few months
later, in May, 2003, she caught N.G. engaging in sexual behavior
with A.G. N.G. also began sexually acting out with other
children.5
5 Because of his sexual behavior, N.G. was eventually removed from this
foster home, in February, 2004, and sent to live at a separate foster home
where there were no younger children. A.G. remained in the original foster
home. The foster mother testified that after N.G. was removed, A.G. did well
at first, but recently began engaging in sexual and aggressive behavior at
his day care. She testified that this behavior started after a temporary two
week stay by A.G. in the same foster home as N.G.
-6-
Morgan initiated a sexual abuse investigation with law
enforcement. N.G. was interviewed by a Glasgow police officer,
but the officer was unable to get any “coherent disclosures” of
sexual abuse from him. N.G. was therefore sent to be
interviewed by Julie Griffey, a therapist employed by “Life
Skills” counseling center. This interview, referred to as a
“sexual abuse assessment,” took place on May 27, 2003. Over the
objections of the defense, and at issue on appeal, Griffey was
permitted to testify as to statements allegedly made by N.G.
during this interview and at subsequent sessions, which alleged
sexual abuse by his parents and his uncles J.G. and E.G.
Griffey testified from reports she had prepared
regarding her sessions with N.G. At the May 27, 2003, sexual
abuse interview (at which time N.G. had been in foster care for
seven months) she explained “good touch” and “bad touch” to
N.G., using anatomically correct dolls.6 She explained “bad
touch” as a touch in the area where your underwear or bathing
suit covers you, that usually no one else is in the room, that
it feels sneaky, and that often the person tells you not to
6 Griffey already had a case file on N.G., having first seen him in July,
2002, at which time he was still with his parents. At that time, Morgan had
referred N.G. to Griffey because of behavior problems and Morgan’s concern
that he had been around two (unnamed) alleged sex offenders. A.G.G. brought
N.G. to this appointment. Griffey spoke to N.G. alone and N.G. did not
report any sexual abuse to Griffey at this time. Griffey saw N.G. again in
October, 2002, when he was in foster care. At that time, N.G. was not acting
out sexually. Griffey’s concerns at that appointment were that N.G. seemed
delayed in speech, exhibited disruptive behavior, and that his play was not
“meaningful or purposeful.”
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tell. In summary, Griffey testified that, with the assistance
of the dolls, in response to her questioning about bad touches,
N.G. told her about the following sexual acts: that J.G. made
him touch his penis, that J.G. touched his penis, that he put
his mouth on J.G.’s penis, that J.G. put his penis in his butt,
that E.G. put his penis in his butt, and that E.G. put his mouth
on his penis. Griffey testified that N.G. told her that these
incidents happened at “nanny and pa’s house”, in J.G.’s bedroom
and in E.G.’s room, and that everyone else was in the kitchen.
Griffey testified that, following the discussion about
his uncles J.G. and E.G., she asked N.G. if anyone else had
“touched” him, and N.G. said that “Momma did”, “at the house at
the trailer park and Daddy at the trailer park”, “no one else
was home when momma touched me”, “Momma was in the kitchen when
Daddy touched me.” At this point, N.G. had become tired so
Griffey stopped discussing abuse with him. Griffey reported the
results of the interview to Morgan.
Following the May 27, 2003, interview, Griffey
continued to see N.G. to try to obtain more details about the
sexual abuse and for therapy to work on his sexual acting out
behavior. Griffey testified that at a June, 2003, appointment,
in “play therapy”, N.G. mentioned the same four people, J.G.,
E.G., and his mother and father. At a September, 2003,
appointment, it had been reported to Griffey that N.G. had been
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discovered performing oral sex on a playmate. Griffey testified
that, in discussing this behavior with N.G., he told her that
“Daddy and [J.G.]” did this, and that “Daddy did it in the
bedroom when Mommy was away.”
On cross-examination, defense counsel pointed out that
at the May 27, 2003, interview, when N.G. had named his mother
and father as having “touched” him, Griffey (according to her
own report from which she was reading), had only asked if anyone
else had “touched” him, not “bad touch”. Griffey explained that
she cannot transcribe every word spoken, and also that she
believed N.G. would have understood she was asking about “bad
touches”. Griffey acknowledged that N.G. had given no details
in the May 27, 2003, interview of where his parents touched him.
She testified, however, that in an October, 2003, session (at
which time N.G. had not been in the custody of his parents for a
year), when she was doing an exercise with N.G. in which she was
reviewing “what happened” to him and “bad touches”, he indicated
his mommy and daddy (as well as J.G. and E.G.) gave him “bad
touches”, and pointed to the genital area of a gingerbread man.
Defense counsel also pointed out that by Griffey’s defining “bad
touch” as a touch “in the area where your underwear or bathing
suit covers you”, that innocent parental touches (as would occur
when helping a child go to the toilet, changing a child’s pants,
wiping a child’s bottom, putting on a child’s clothes, and potty
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training) could be identified by a child as a “bad touch”.
Griffey insisted that she had explained “bad touch” thoroughly,
and believed N.G. understood what she meant by “bad touch”.
Pursuant to the sexual abuse investigation, N.G. and
A.G. were referred to the Barren River Area Child Advocacy
Center for sexual abuse examinations, where they were examined
by Dr. Jeffries Blackerby, a pediatrician, on July 15, 2003.
Dr. Blackerby was familiar with the allegations from the social
workers’ and Griffey’s reports. Dr. Blackerby testified that
the examinations showed “no specific abnormalities.”7
Dr. Blackerby did not interview two-year old A.G., but
did attempt to interview N.G. Over the objections of the
defense, and at issue on appeal, Dr. Blackerby was permitted to
repeat what N.G. told him in the interview. Dr. Blackerby
testified that N.G. was reluctant to talk so he did not strongly
pursue the questioning, but did specifically ask about abuse by
J.G. Dr. Blackerby testified that, in response to his asking
what he acknowledged were leading questions, that N.G. told him
that J.G. abused him many times, that it happened at J.G.’s
house and that his “nanny and pa” and uncle E.G. lived there
7 Dr. Blackerby’s report describes N.G.’s examination as “essentially
normal”
with one notation. Dr. Blackerby explained that in examining for sexual
abuse he performs a test which involves anal dilatation in response to
traction. He testified that N.G.’s test suggested normal dilatation,
however, it was near the borderline range. Dr. Blackerby explained that he
made a note of this as somewhat suspicious because of the allegations,
although it was not necessarily abnormal and he saw no evidence of injury.
Dr. Blackerby testified that A.G.’s examination was “totally normal.”
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too, and that his parents were there when the abuse happened but
that they did not see it happen.
W.E.G. did not testify at the termination hearing.8
A.G.G. testified, and denied that she ever sexually abused the
children or allowed them to be sexually abused. A.G.G. claimed
that she never touched either of her children in a bad way, nor
knows of anyone that has. She had no reason to believe that
W.E.G. had ever sexually abused the children. She had never
noticed either child sexually acting out, nor had any reason to
believe that the children were sexually abused. She claimed she
did not allow the children around W.E.G.’s family members
without her, that she was always with them, and that the
children always followed her.
It was undisputed that A.G.G. and W.E.G. had regularly
attended the visitations with the children since their removal
in October, 2002. Betty Harwood, the Cabinet worker who
transported the children and supervised the visits testified
that the visits mostly went well, and that A.G.G. and W.E.G.
always brought food and toys for the children. Other than
attending the visitations and parenting classes, however, Morgan
8 W.E.G.’s counsel explained that he is a very shy person and did not feel
comfortable testifying.
-11-
testified that A.G.G. and W.E.G. had not complied with their
treatment plan.9
A few weeks before the termination hearing, in July,
2004, however, A.G.G. and W.E.G. moved to a different trailer,
which is larger and clean, and does not have a roach problem.10
The new trailer has two bedrooms, two bathrooms, running water,
electricity, and a washer and dryer. It was undisputed by the
Cabinet that the new trailer is clean and properly furnished.
It was further undisputed that, despite the
allegations made by the Cabinet, no one had been convicted or
even charged criminally with sexual abuse of N.G. or A.G.
KRS 625.090 sets forth the grounds for termination of
parental rights. Pursuant to the requirements of the statute,
the trial court found that the Cabinet met its burden of proof,
and, on September 8, 2004, entered orders terminating the
parental rights of both A.G.G. and W.E.G. as to both N.G. and
A.G. The trial court found, in pertinent part:
1. [N.G.] and [A.G.] are abused and
neglected children as defined in KRS
600.020(1) and termination of parental
rights would be in the best interest of the
children; in that, Respondents have caused
or allowed each child to be sexually abused
9 Which included behaving as if the children were with them by living in
their own home instead of staying with W.E.G.’s parents, keeping a safe home
environment, improving cleaning and hygiene, attending counseling, and
staying away from people who could be harmful to the children.
10 The termination hearing in this case took place on August 10, 2004 and
August 31, 2004.
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or exploited (See also KRS 625.090(2)(f) and
KRS 600.020(1)(e)) and in that Respondents
have failed to provide sanitary living
conditions in the children’s home (See also
KRS 625.090(2)(e) and KRS 600.020(1)(d)).
2. [A.G.G.] and [W.E.G.] have caused or
allowed the children to be sexually abused
or exploited.
3. [A.G.G.] and [W.E.G.], for a period of
not less than six (6) months, have
continuously or repeatedly failed or refused
to provide or have been substantially
incapable of providing essential parental
care and protection for the children and
there is no reasonable expectation of
improvement in parental care and protection,
considering the age of the children.
4. [A.G.G.] and [W.E.G.], for reasons other
than poverty alone, have continuously or
repeatedly failed to provide or are
incapable of providing essential food,
clothing, shelter, medical care or education
reasonably necessary and available for the
children’s well-being and there is no
reasonable expectation of significant
improvement in the parents’ conduct in the
immediately foreseeable future, considering
the age of the children.
From the September 8, 2004, termination orders, A.G.G. and
W.E.G. filed separate appeals to this court, which were heard
together for our review.
The first issue on appeal, raised by A.G.G., is that
it was a violation of the Confrontation Clause for the trial
court to allow the hearsay statements of N.G. to be admitted as
evidence against her, as N.G. did not testify at trial, and
there was no prior opportunity for cross-examination. The
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Cabinet counters that the hearsay was admissible under KRE
803(4), the medical treatment or diagnosis exception to the
hearsay rule.
The Confrontation Clause of the Sixth Amendment of the
United States Constitution guarantees the right of an accused in
a criminal prosecution to be confronted with the witnesses
against him. The United States Supreme Court has held that, as
a termination of parental rights proceeding seeks not only to
infringe upon, but terminate, a fundamental liberty interest
(that of natural parents in the care, custody, and management of
their child), a parent must be provided with fundamentally fair
procedures. Santosky v. Kramer, 455 U.S. 745, 102 S. Ct. 1388,
71 L. Ed. 2d 599 (1982). In termination of parental rights
proceedings, fundamental fairness includes the right to
confrontation. G.E.Y. v. Cabinet for Human Resources, 701
S.W.2d 713 (Ky.App. 1985). Both “[a] child and his parents
share a vital interest in preventing erroneous termination of
their natural relationship.” Santosky, 455 U.S. at 760.
In the landmark case of Crawford v. Washington, 541
U.S. 36, 124 S. Ct. 1354, 158 L. Ed. 2d 177 (2004), the United
States Supreme Court revisited the Confrontation Clause and its
decision in Ohio v. Roberts, 448 U.S. 56, 100 S. Ct. 2531, 65 L.
Ed. 2d 597 (1980). In Roberts, the Supreme Court considered the
relationship of the Confrontation Clause to the rule against
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hearsay, and its many exceptions. Roberts interpreted the
purpose of the Clause as a substantive one - to ensure
reliability of evidence. Roberts went on to hold that the
constitutional right to confrontation can be “dispens[ed] with”
where reliability can be inferred where the evidence falls
within a “firmly rooted hearsay exception” or has
“particularized guarantees of trustworthiness”, on grounds that
such evidence comports with the “substance of the constitutional
protection.” Roberts, 448 U.S. at 64-66.
Where Roberts circumvented the Confrontation Clause by
allowing into evidence out-of-court statements deemed reliable
by a court, or through the rules of evidence, Crawford, in a
strongly-worded opinion by Justice Scalia, returns the Court to
a strict construction of the Clause in line with the original
intent of the Framers. Crawford abrogated Roberts and held that
the Confrontation Clause is a procedural, not substantive,
guarantee that cannot be usurped by state or federal rules of
evidence or judicial determinations of reliability.
The Crawford Court arrived at its holding by looking
at the historical underpinnings of the Confrontation Clause, and
what it meant to the Framers in 1791, the year the Sixth
Amendment was ratified. The Framers source of the confrontation
right was the English common law, which required, in criminal
trials, live testimony in court subject to adversarial testing.
-15-
Crawford, 541 U.S. at 43. Burned into the minds of the Framers,
however, were fearsome periods in English history, where England
legislatively adopted elements of continental civil law practice
in conducting criminal trials. Id. at 43-46.11 These statutes
carved out exceptions to the common law right to confrontation,
and allowed out-of-court examinations of witnesses to be read in
court as evidence against an accused in lieu of live testimony.
Id.
The most notorious use of these practices occurred in
the great political trials of the sixteenth and seventeenth
centuries. Id. at 44. The most renowned was that of Sir Walter
Raleigh in 1603, when Raleigh had been accused by one Lord
Cobham of plotting to seize the throne. Sir Walter Raleigh’s
trial was held up by the Crawford Court throughout the opinion
as a paradigmatic confrontation violation, and exactly what the
Framers intended would never occur in the criminal trials of
this country – that an accused would be condemned by an accuser
whom he did not get to cross-examine. The Court described the
infamous proceedings:
Lord Cobham, Raleigh’s alleged accomplice,
had implicated him in an examination before
the Privy Council and in a letter. At
Raleigh’s trial, these were read to the
11 The civil law system is “[o]ne of the two prominent legal systems in the
Western World, originally administered in the Roman Empire and still
influential in continental Europe, Latin America, Scotland, and Louisiana,
among other parts of the world.” See Blacks Law Dictionary 239 (7th ed.
1999).
-16-
jury. Raleigh argued that Cobham had lied
to save himself: “Cobham is absolutely in
the King’s mercy; to excuse me cannot avail
him; by accusing me he may hope for favour.”
Suspecting that Cobham would recant, Raleigh
demanded that the judges call him to appear,
arguing that “[t]he Proof of the Common Law
is by witness and jury: let Cobham be here,
let him speak it. Call my accuser before my
face ....” The judges refused, and, despite
Raleigh’s protestations that he was being
tried “by the Spanish Inquisition,” the jury
convicted, and Raleigh was sentenced to
death.
Crawford, at 44 (citations omitted)(emphasis added).12
To guarantee that the common law right to
confrontation could never be abrogated in this nation, either
legislatively or judicially, our Framers adopted the right to
confrontation as a constitutional right. The original
understanding of the confrontation right is found in the
earliest decisions: “‘[I]t is a rule of the common law, founded
12 The Crawford Court recognized that Roberts, ironically, permits the same
abuses condemned by our Framers in the Raleigh trial. Justice Scalia,
comparing Raleigh to Roberts, opined:
The Raleigh trial itself involved the very sorts of
reliability determinations that Roberts authorizes.
In the face of Raleigh’s repeated demands for
confrontation, the prosecution responded with many of
the arguments a court applying Roberts might invoke
today: that Cobham’s statements were selfinculpatory,
that they were not made in the heat of
passion, and that they were not “extracted from [him]
upon any hopes or promise of Pardon[.]” It is not
plausible that the Framers’ only objection to the
trial was that Raleigh’s judges did not properly
weigh these factors before sentencing him to death.
Rather, the problem was that the judges refused to
allow Raleigh to confront Cobham in court, where he
could cross-examine him and try to expose his
accusation as a lie.
Crawford, at 62 (citations omitted)(emphasis added).
-17-
on natural justice, that no man shall be prejudiced by evidence
which he had not the liberty to cross examine.’” Crawford, at
49, quoting State v. Webb, 2 N.C. 103, 104 (Super. L. & Eq.
1794) (decided three years after the adoption of the Sixth
Amendment).
The Crawford Court held that, in accordance with
original intent, the Sixth Amendment guarantees the right of
confrontation as it stood at common law in 1791, the year the
Sixth Amendment was ratified. Id. at 54. The only method of
assessing reliability acceptable to the Framers was that of the
common law - cross-examination. The common law did not allow
the admission of the testimonial statement of a witness who did
not appear at trial unless he was shown to be unavailable to
testify13 and the defendant had had a prior opportunity for
cross-examination. The Framers did not intend, and the Sixth
Amendment does not allow for “reliability” exceptions from the
confrontation right to be developed by the courts or legislative
bodies.14 Accordingly, the Roberts test, which allowed the
confrontation right to be replaced by “hearsay exceptions” and
“particularized guarantees of trustworthiness” as surrogate
means of assessing reliability, was deemed by the Crawford Court
13 Reflecting the preference for face-to-face confrontation at trial.
14 “Leaving the regulation of out-of-court statements to the law of evidence
would render the Confrontation Clause powerless to prevent even the most
flagrant inquisitorial practices. Raleigh was, after all, perfectly free to
confront those who read Cobham’s confession in court.” Crawford, at 51.
-18-
as fundamentally at odds with the Confrontation Clause and
original intent, and discarded.
Justice Scalia explained, “the Clause’s ultimate goal
is to ensure reliability of evidence, but it is a procedural
rather than a substantive guarantee. It commands, not that
evidence be reliable, but that reliability be assessed in a
particular manner: by testing in the crucible of crossexamination.”
Crawford, at 61.15 “The Constitution prescribes a
procedure for determining the reliability of testimony in
criminal trials, and we, no less than the state courts, lack
authority to replace it with one of our own devising.” Id. at
67.
Crawford does not represent a new rule of
admissibility, but returns to the original intent of the
Framers, that the Sixth Amendment incorporates the right of
confrontation as it stood at common law in 1791, a procedural
guarantee. Accordingly, courts can no longer determine the
admissibility of hearsay by inquiring as to whether the hearsay
falls under a “firmly rooted hearsay exception” or bears
“particularized guarantees of trustworthiness”. Once again, the
15 “[T]he Clause envisions ‘a personal examination and cross-examination of
the witness, in which the accused has an opportunity, not only of
testing the
recollection and sifting the conscience of the witness, but of
compelling him
to stand face to face with the jury in order that they may look at him, and
judge by his demeanor upon the stand and the manner in which he gives his
testimony whether he is worthy of belief.’” Roberts, at 63-64, quoting
Mattox v. United States, 156 U.S. 237, 242-243, 15 S. Ct. 337, 339, 39
L. Ed.
409 (1895).
-19-
testimonial statement of a declarant who does not testify at
trial may only be admitted where the declarant is unavailable
and the defendant had a prior opportunity for cross-examination.
“Where testimonial evidence is at issue [] the Sixth Amendment
demands what the common law required: unavailability and a
prior opportunity for cross-examination.” Crawford, at 68.16
In the case before us, we are reviewing the
admissibility of a child’s (N.G.’s) accusatory statements,
elicited by a therapist (Griffey), and by a physician (Dr.
Blackerby), which were read into evidence at trial by the
therapist and the physician. N.G.’s statements accuse his
parents and uncles of a crime – sexual abuse – and were offered
as proof of the matter asserted. N.G., the accuser, did not
testify at trial and there was no prior opportunity for crossexamination.
The Cabinet asserts the medical exception to the
hearsay rule allows the statements admission into evidence.
Visions of Sir Walter Raleigh come to mind. “Call my accuser
before my face.” Our Framers foresaw the formulation of
possible exceptions to the common law right to confrontation and
16 “An assertion is testimonial evidence whether made out of court or in
court, if it is offered with a view to persuading the tribunal of the matter
asserted.” Blacks Law Dictionary 580 (7th ed. 1999) quoting John H. Wigmore,
A Students’ Textbook of the Law of Evidence 120 (1935). See also Robert G.
Lawson, The Kentucky Evidence Law Handbook, § 8.05[2] (4th ed. 2003),
defining
as “testimonial”, an out-of-court statement offered as proof of the matter
asserted. If a statement is offered for some other purpose it is
nontestimonial
and would not violate the hearsay prohibition. See also Davis v.
Bennett’s Adm’r, 132 S.W.2d 334 (Ky. 1939), and Barnes v. Commonwealth, 794
S.W.2d 165, 167 (Ky. 1990) discussing as “testimonial”, an out-of-court
statement which is offered as evidence of the truth of the fact asserted.
-20-
felt so strongly about retaining the right for all times that
they made it a constitutional guarantee. The common law of 1791
would not allow these criminal accusations into evidence
untested by cross-examination. The Crawford Court recognized
the Confrontation Clause was a procedural guarantee to test for
truthfulness and constitutionally could not be dispensed with
through other tests of reliability or trustworthiness.
Therefore, N.G.’s statements were admitted in violation of the
Confrontation Clause.
For those statements that are not so obviously
testimonial under Crawford’s historic analysis, the Crawford
court provided additional guidance by recognizing various core
classes of statements as testimonial. These classes of
statements include (1) “ex parte in-court testimony or its
functional equivalent - - that is, material such as affidavits,
custodial examinations, prior testimony that the defendant was
unable to cross-examine, or similar pretrial statements that
declarants would reasonably expect to be used prosecutorially,”
(2) “extrajudicial statements . . . contained in formalized
testimonial materials, such as affidavits, depositions, prior
testimony, or confessions,” and, pertinent to the present case,
(3) “statements that were made under circumstances which would
lead an objective witness reasonably to believe that the
-21-
statement would be available for use at a later trial[.]”
Crawford, at 51-52 (citations omitted).17
The statements of N.G., which describe and accuse
various persons of abuse, clearly fall into the category of
statements made under circumstances which, from an objective
perspective, would be reasonably believed to be available for
use at a later trial. Not only is child abuse a criminal
offense under any circumstances, but KRS 620.030 requires
medical and mental health professionals to report suspicion of
child abuse to law enforcement, the county or commonwealth
attorney, or the cabinet. Our Supreme Court has recognized that
this reporting requirement is demonstrative of an unequivocal
intent that suspected abuse will be investigated by state
authorities. See Commonwealth v. Allen, 980 S.W.2d 278 (Ky.
1998). See also, KRS 620.040; KRS 620.050.18 Furthermore, in
the present case, a sexual abuse investigation involving both
the Cabinet and law enforcement was underway, with both
Griffey’s and Dr. Blackerby’s findings reported back to the
Cabinet and law enforcement.
17 “Objective” means “[o]f, relating to, or based on externally verifiable
phenomena, as opposed to an individual’s perceptions, feelings, or
intentions.” See Blacks Law Dictionary 1101 (7th ed. 1999). An objective
witness is neither the declarant nor the person who took and reads the
statement to the court, but the mythical third party who is “[w]ithout bias
or prejudice; disinterested.” Id.
18 See also, KRS 620.020, KRS 620.030-.050, and KRS 431.600-.660 which
recognize the role of “children’s advocacy centers” in investigating and
prosecuting child abuse.
-22-
As N.G.’s statements were testimonial, their admission
violated the Confrontation Clause because there was no showing
that N.G. was unavailable to testify and the defense had no
prior opportunity for cross-examination.19 “Where testimonial
statements are at issue, the only indicium of reliability
sufficient to satisfy constitutional demands is the one the
Constitution actually prescribes: confrontation.” Crawford, at
68-69.
A.G.G.’s second argument is that the Cabinet failed to
present clear and convincing evidence that the children had been
sexually abused or that A.G.G. perpetrated or had knowledge of
the sexual abuse of her children. W.E.G.’s second and third
arguments overlap A.G.G.’s. In light of our decision that the
Confrontation Clause requires us to exclude the hearsay
statements of N.G., there is little, much less clear and
convincing, evidence of sexual abuse.
A.G.G.’s last argument and W.E.G.’s remaining
arguments relate to sanitary and living conditions, reasonable
expectation of improvement, the sufficiency of the evidence, and
the trial court’s decision to terminate parental rights. The
trial court has a great deal of discretion in determining
whether a child fits within the abused or neglected category and
whether the abuse or neglect warrants termination. M.P.S. v.
19 Had N.G. testified, there would be no confrontation problem, but the
rules
of evidence would have applied.
-23-
Cabinet for Human Resources, 979 S.W.2d 114, 116 (Ky.App. 1998)
(citing Department for Human Resources v. Moore, 552 S.W.2d 672,
675 (Ky.App. 1977)). The standard of review in a termination of
parental rights action is confined to the clearly erroneous
standard in CR 52.01 based upon clear and convincing evidence,
and the findings of the trial court will not be disturbed unless
there exists no substantial evidence in the record to support
its findings. Id. (citing V.S. v. Commonwealth, Cabinet for
Human Resources, 706 S.W.2d 420, 424 (Ky.App. 1986)).
In excluding the hearsay statements of N.G. as
admitted in violation of the Confrontation Clause, there is not
clear and convincing evidence of sexual abuse, and the trial
court’s findings to the contrary are in error. Neglect alone is
sufficient for termination. That being said, however, much of
the reasoning given by the trial court for terminating in this
case pertained to sexual abuse. We do not know if the trial
court would have ruled in favor of termination on neglect alone,
without the findings related to sexual abuse. See KRS
625.090(1); Cabinet for Human Resources v. J.B.B., 772 S.W.2d
646 (Ky.App. 1989); G.E.Y. v. Cabinet for Human Resources, 701
S.W.2d 713, 715 (Ky.App. 1985) (Where it is apparent that the
trial court relied on inadmissible hearsay in making termination
decision, the error in the admission of the unreliable evidence
cannot be deemed harmless or nonprejudicial.) We believe the
-24-
better procedure would be to vacate the decision to terminate as
to each appellant and remand to the trial court.
For the foregoing reasons, the judgments of
termination of the Barren Circuit Court are vacated and the
matter remanded for further proceedings consistent with this
opinion.
ALL CONCUR.
BRIEF FOR APPELLANT A.G.G.:
Benjamin D. Rogers
Glasgow, Kentucky
BRIEF FOR APPELLANT W.E.G.:
Rita E. Riherd
Glasgow, Kentucky
BRIEF FOR APPELLEE:
Mary Gaines Locke
Munfordville, Kentucky

....snip...prior postings....

And lest you presume that I'm scamming YOU like you attempt to Doananate
others, read and heed.

http://www.childabuselaw.info/lawnews/CrawfordDecision.htm

... This rule will henceforth govern admissibility of testimonial
hearsay in all federal and state criminal trials. ...

See those two words, "criminal trials?"

That means they do not apply to civil trials.

Now I know some of you nitwits want all child abuse trials to be
criminal trials, but you are unaware of what you are asking for.

You can be sure, for instance, that if that took place, all charges
relating to injury through spanking would move right on up to Supreme
Court level for appeal by the victims.

Other similar events would occur...such as the statutes that are now
civil in nature, regarding child abuse, would become criminal statues
with commensurate penalty clauses....serious penalty clauses.

Doug thinks the judges would behave like civil court judges when it
comes to penalties....don't bet on it, stupid.

Some CPS cases NOW go to criminal court, and folks go to jail when they
lose, and they so, quite often.

Now if you think like a criminal you no doubt would find loop holes that
might benefit you, but Greg, you don't think like a criminal, do you?

0:->

......snip.....r r r r ....

And you will see here, that it is not the nature of the evidence, as to
"hearsay" but rather the COMPETENCE OF THE WITNESS that is the deciding
issue, Greg.

http://www.childabuselaw.info/lawnews/HearsayDeclarant.htm

... It held that the hearsay was not admissible because the evidence did
not show the boy was competent to testify at the time he made the
statements. ...

In other words, bright boy, had he been a competent child...and they
certainly do exist, his testimony would likely have been, even as
hearsay, admissible.

Tsk, eh? Tsk tsk.

0:->

....snip....<snicker>...

and furthermore....R R R R R

http://www.childabuselaw.info/lawnews/hearsayrejected.htm

... Child's Hearsay Rejected
Because He Was Not Competent To Testify
If a child is not competent to testify at trial, his hearsay statements
may be admitted only after a showing that, when he made those
statements, he could comprehend and truthfully relate the events
described in them. So saying, Division Three of the Washington Court of
Appeals has reversed a child molestation conviction in State v. C.J.,
Docket No. 19558-9-III, 32 P.3d 1051 (10/18/01). ...

Will the decision made by the court in Kentucky be challenged?

Ohhh..you betcha.

Competence, not "hearsay" is the issue, and always has been.

Now if a state wishes to bar hearsay that IS of course their privilege.

The trick is to do crimes against children, Greg, only in states that do
so bar hearsay.

That should help.

R R R R  R R R R R R  R