> > > Thanks for posting this, Greg. It is good to see another example of CPS
> > > handing incompetence in such a forceful an immediate manner.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> You wish the worker penalized before the investigation completed?
> Let me give you a lesson again. This is called, "information." You will
> forget it, but I never give up on you:
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> You seemed blissifully immune from noticing two things...five minutes,
> no mention if the car was ventilated, and the child was not harmed.
> Oh, and one other thing. The case is not completed yet.
> It could be the car and child were being watched by someone. Anything
> is possible when it says, "...pending the outcome of the
> investigation..."
> > > > Thanks for posting this, Greg. It is good to see another example of CPS
> > > > handing incompetence in such a forceful an immediate manner.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Parents and children are.
That is not only not an answer to the question asked....what is your
wish as to when workers should be penalized, and no, parents and
children receive NO punishment before the investigation is completed.
In a high percentage of investigations, as you know, since the data has
been posted here many times over the years, do not result in any action
other than closing the case immediately, with the most difficulty
simply being interviewed.
Again you are, as I have seen criminals do, claiming that no
investigation should be done unless the proof is already in. A total
breakdown of logic and reality.
> > This level of worker barely meets poverty level income in most states,
> > Greg.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> But if a parent did what she did, it would be a CRIMINAL charge!
You don't know that. No harm to the child, we don't even know the
circumstances yet, and the parent would simpy be facing what that
worker is, an investigation.
> You think the agency backs off on a family because of
> these "sob story" things you pointed out?
Yes. And they are not sob story things, they are reality for parents as
well. Not every instance of a parent leaving a child in a car for five
minutes results in a criminal charge, Greg.
You are making a charge that it is so let's see you support it with
facts. Post instances.
> > Would you like to be investigated and YOUR income stopped completely
> > during the period of the investigation?
>
> Should be restored after she is found innocent.
> Not a chance.
The period of the investigation, as I said, will be less than three
days tops.
She's not going to get rich in that time.
She likely has more vacation time accrued to collect than that.
> > > > Vaughn was suspended with pay pending the outcome
> > > > of the investigation, Johnson said.
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> > often part time, and do not act as "experts" who are critcizing
> > parents.
You just skip by the parts you can't handle, Greg. Why is that?
> > In fact, Greg, a caseworkers job does not include criticizing parents.
>
> Then we've had some going WAY outside of their job description!
You are a very inspirational individual, Greg.
> > Let me give you a lesson again. This is called, "information." You will
> > forget it, but I never give up on you:
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Do you think "ventilation" would stave off a criminal charge against a
> parent?
Yes. Do you think it wouldn't?
Do you honestly believe that ever reported incident of this kind, if no
harm came to the child would result in a criminal charge?
Show us the statutes. And note, you must stick to YOUR careful
discrimination between civil and 'criminal' charges forever, since
you've babbled about them for years now.
> > Oh, and one other thing. The case is not completed yet.
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Usually this means until the public interest in this dies
> off and they can cover their own rears without any attention.
Which would apply equally to parents.
Without harm to the child Greg, most prosecutors would cut this loose
without charges being filed. It would make a judge totally pissed to
see cases where not harm occurred.
> The Iowa DHS Cherokee facility enema fiasco was like that.
It was nothing like this case, and in the real world what "case"
doesn't hold less interest for the public after a time.
> Iowa DHS ruled that Iowa DHS was innocent of child abuse.
And what proof do you have the the passage of time, and the "cooling"
effect thereby, wsa the deciding factor in this ruling.
I'm curious about it though.
Please cite the story where DHS workers gave enemas.
Thanks.
Greegor - 23 Nov 2006 09:36 GMT
> > > > forceful and immediate vacation with pay?
> > >
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> wish as to when workers should be penalized, and no, parents and
> children receive NO punishment before the investigation is completed.
Child Removal is a grievous harm in itself.
> Without harm to the child Greg, most prosecutors would cut this loose
> without charges being filed. It would make a judge totally pissed to
> see cases where not harm occurred.
Criminal court yes, ADMINISTRATIVE NO!
They THRIVE on the phrase "at risk of" (Chicken Little!).
> Please cite the story where DHS workers gave enemas.
Sharon Ispay - 23 Nov 2006 11:38 GMT
""Please cite the story where DHS workers gave enemas.""
The location of this story is secret. Unknown sourses think it best to not
let the CPS/enema thing out of the 'bag' because the offices are not set up
to handle the rush of perverts that would result.
Thak you for your attention to the matter of -
CPA gives enemas.
0:-> - 23 Nov 2006 18:14 GMT
> ""Please cite the story where DHS workers gave enemas.""
>
> The location of this story is secret.
Of course it is. <smile>
> Unknown sourses think it best to not
> let the CPS/enema thing out of the 'bag' because the offices are not set up
> to handle the rush of perverts that would result.
Disappointed?
> Thak you for your attention to the matter of -
No no, 'Thak' you.
> CPA gives enemas.
My daughter is about to take the CPA certification exams for another
state.
I'll ask her if accountants are now required to give clients enemas.
It's sure to be referred to on the exam.
Funny how your particular brand of humor always seems to pop up just
when you have failed to answer logically or honestly the questions and
challenges put to you.
Laughter under pressure, Dennis?
Yes, that was often your nervous tic displayed here when you were
caught lying.
0:->
Greegor - 24 Nov 2006 14:00 GMT
""Please cite the story where DHS workers gave enemas.""
The location of this story is secret. Unknown [sources] think it best
to not
let the CPS/enema thing out of the 'bag' because the offices are not
set up
to handle the rush of perverts that would result.
[Thank] you for your attention to the matter of - [CPS] gives enemas.
http://www.dmregister.com/news/stories/c4788993/18155605.html
Boy's enema treatments prompt DHS investigation
The agency will investigate the case of an 11-year-old boy hospitalized
at a state mental institution.
By FRANK SANTIAGO Register Staff Writer 05/10/2002
The Department of Human Services will investigate the treatment of an
11-year-old patient at the Cherokee Mental Health Institute who was
subjected to enemas to control his behavior, officials said Thursday.
Department spokesman Roger Munns described internal investigations as
routine in cases where questions are raised about practices at
department operations like the Cherokee hospital.
In the case of Patrick Dilworth, he said, issues were raised in a
report last weekend in the Des Moines Sunday Register and by other
sources, including lawyers for the family.
Munns didn't say who would do the internal investigation or how long it
would take.
Patrick, of Des Moines, has been at Cherokee's 14-bed locked ward for
children with extreme behavioral problems since October. Records and
interviews revealed he was forced to wear diapers and forbidden to
bathe after episodes of smearing feces on himself and walls. The enemas
were done about 10 times.
A Polk County judge issued a restraining order barring the treatment of
the boy after lawyers for the family claimed it was abusive.
Lisa Munyon, the boy's mother, said she was delighted there would be an
investigation.
"This is great, and I hope something is done," she said. "There are
other children there, too."
Munyon said she was attempting to obtain a judge's order to move
Patrick from Cherokee to another institution.
"There are two general questions," Munns said Thursday. "The first one:
Did we follow our own procedures, and were they appropriate?
Specifically, did the internal ethics committee and the internal human
rights committee meet in a timely and professional manner?"
The two committees generally review treatment plans.
"The second question is: Even if we responded correctly on this level,
should there be an additional threshold, an additional standard, in
extreme cases, specifically cases that require a treatment known to be
extremely rare? That would include enemas."
Munns declined to discuss the Cherokee case further, citing laws about
confidentiality.
"It doesn't take a lawyer or a newspaper to check our procedures," he
said. "Whenever there is a question about the handling of a child in
need, we review our procedures."
Munyon said her son had been to several psychologists, but there is no
agreement on a diagnosis. Some have said the boy suffers from attention
deficit-hyperactivity disorder.
The boy's lawyer, Amy Kepes of the Youth Law Center in Des Moines,
described the treatment as punishment "akin to medical rape."
Several specialists in child behavior said in interviews that the
enemas weren't acceptable treatment and could be harmful to the boy.
0:-> - 24 Nov 2006 19:43 GMT
> ""Please cite the story where DHS workers gave enemas.""
> The location of this story is secret. Unknown [sources] think it best
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> to handle the rush of perverts that would result.
> [Thank] you for your attention to the matter of - [CPS] gives enemas.
Let me see now ... DHS investigates an enema giving situation and YOU
claimed CPS .. a subsidiary of DHS did the enema giving.
Last I heard a mental ward is NOT under CPS jurisdiction. When did
Cherokee Mental Health Institute become CPS in Iowa, or DHS for that
matter, Greg?
Would you like to restate your case against CPS/DHS regarding this
incident?
You don't seen the connection between removing fecal matter from the
boys bowel and the use he makes of fecal matter, if he can get his hands
on it?
Fecal matter is not sterile, Greg, and it has to be cleaned up. To stop
his smearing there are other possibly methods, but I see none of them as
being MORE humane than removing the play material he uses it for.
One would be to keep him drugged.
Would you prefer that?
Another would be to keep him restrained.
Would you prefer that?
One would be to assign him three workers, each full time, to
supervise...and obviously have to physically restrain him at times.
Would you prefer that? And will you pay from three shifts of workers?
Do you accept that burden for the taxpayers?
And no, Greg, the claims of the family and attorney are NOT true. Enemas
are not harmful in and of themselves if not "high colonics" but simply
the removal of fecal matter from the lower bowel area.
If it were dangerous then sh.tting would be dangerous.
Thanks for once again giving us a little insight into the working of
Greg's mind.
How this became, Oliver Sutton, a CPS responsibility is beyond me.
(have you figured out REALLY who OS is? ... keep thinking)
Can you explain how you came to think that CPS give enemas?
Thank you in advance. Kane
> http://www.dmregister.com/news/stories/c4788993/18155605.html
>
[quoted text clipped - 63 lines]
> Several specialists in child behavior said in interviews that the
> enemas weren't acceptable treatment and could be harmful to the boy.
Greegor - 25 Nov 2006 06:19 GMT
Are you blaming me for what the Des Moines Register wrote Kane?
Do you think the Des Moines Register had their facts wrong
about the Cherokee facility being run by Iowa DHS?
"Department spokesman" is a euphamism for Public Relations person or
lobbyist.
> forbidden to bathe after episodes of smearing feces on
> himself and walls. The enemas were done about 10 times.
Kane wrote
> Can you explain how you came to think that CPS give enemas?
http://www.dmregister.com/news/stories/c4788993/18155605.html
> > Boy's enema treatments prompt DHS investigation
> > The agency will investigate the case of an 11-year-old boy hospitalized
[quoted text clipped - 61 lines]
> > Several specialists in child behavior said in interviews that the
> > enemas weren't acceptable treatment and could be harmful to the boy.