Family Forum / Parenting / Spanking / September 2004

That will be interesting to watch. Hopefully more truthful that you
post.

We don't know she warehoused. She was trying to come out of her
finacial debable, apparently. Me I wouldn't work in Iraq for any
money. Can't run fast enough anymore.

As for kin, well, it's quite possible their weren't any kin that would
take or could take these children. Given that millions of kin in this
country do provide for relative children, I'd say the saturation point
is probably very close to being reached, and they say cocaine is a
great fertility drug.

Have you ever thought what people must think, new to this ng, when
they read your posts and see these strange referrences to acronyms
they've never heard of?  Or is this your attempt to impress them with
your expertise by doing this?

But yes, lawsuits.

Money from programs that support other children, and families, in
need. Reductions in badly needed physical and mental
rehabilitation...some even to reduce life threatening conditions.

Do you think that workers will lose any pay? Or will there simly fewer
of them, insuring a strained system more stain, and guaranteeing more
mistakes?

I hope you haven't too much of a concience. It would be hell to
actually think through these things and discover the truth, Fern.

I can't help but wonder what you taught to MSW candidates. And your
status in doing such instruction. I did that a few times with a
bachelors, as I had an expertise wanted by the instructor, but the
instructor was the authority and his degreed status covered the
classes. Just some obscure stuff about the 60's that I was published
on. Social issues. Nothing really. No, really, nothing.

You and Greg seem so much alike in this area of ethics and conscience.

Oh, and trust me, Fern, I'll crosspost my posted replies to wherever I
please.

And some day, just to show you it can be done, I'll forward one of
your more creative posts all over the world...without your permission.
As long as I receive no monetary consideration for it, you are not
protected under copyright.

You are in the public domain. And I haven't stolen a confidential
communication. If you write to the public, you are kinda public...no?

So whatchagonnadotome, Pollinate me?

Kane

That will be interesting to watch. Hopefully more truthful that you
post.

We don't know she warehoused. She was trying to come out of her
finacial debable, apparently. Me I wouldn't work in Iraq for any
money. Can't run fast enough anymore.

As for kin, well, it's quite possible their weren't any kin that would
take or could take these children. Given that millions of kin in this
country do provide for relative children, I'd say the saturation point
is probably very close to being reached, and they say cocaine is a
great fertility drug.

Have you ever thought what people must think, new to this ng, when
they read your posts and see these strange referrences to acronyms
they've never heard of?  Or is this your attempt to impress them with
your expertise by doing this?

But yes, lawsuits.

Money from programs that support other children, and families, in
need. Reductions in badly needed physical and mental
rehabilitation...some even to reduce life threatening conditions.

Do you think that workers will lose any pay? Or will there simly fewer
of them, insuring a strained system more stain, and guaranteeing more
mistakes?

I hope you haven't too much of a concience. It would be hell to
actually think through these things and discover the truth, Fern.

I can't help but wonder what you taught to MSW candidates. And your
status in doing such instruction. I did that a few times with a
bachelors, as I had an expertise wanted by the instructor, but the
instructor was the authority and his degreed status covered the
classes. Just some obscure stuff about the 60's that I was published
on. Social issues. Nothing really. No, really, nothing.

You and Greg seem so much alike in this area of ethics and conscience.

Oh, and trust me, Fern, I'll crosspost my posted replies to wherever I
please.

And some day, just to show you it can be done, I'll forward one of
your more creative posts all over the world...without your permission.
As long as I receive no monetary consideration for it, you are not
protected under copyright.

You are in the public domain. And I haven't stolen a confidential
communication. If you write to the public, you are kinda public...no?

So whatchagonnadotome, Pollinate me?

Kane

"Chattel?"  Oprah's calling the children "chattel?"  Maybe.hmmm......

I have no idea, do you?  I don't know the family nor do I know the
children.  Perhaps you do, Fern.  And perhaps you could tell us how this
post is relevant to alt.parenting.spanking?

Got kicked out of the appropriate ng, didn't you?

Oops!

LaVonne

Here is a copy of Fern's original opening message to this thread. By
the time of the last response it's obvious Fern has lost the point
entirely. Let me once again point out the errors:

Children are not "chattel" nor considered so by the state. The
intervention of the state is in fact in direct opposition to such
treatment of children and you are the proponent of treating them like
property without human rights.

Your post defending the right of parents to give permission for an
illegal act, the hang up of children naked in a church and beating
them with objects, of proof enough of who sees children as "chattel."

No. I mean to tell you we do not know until that information is
discovered and shared with us...hopefully by an objective reporter.

"warehoused" is a word used in this context, again and again, by you
folks for placing a child legally somewhere...and the mother had the
right to leave her children with relatives...or are you against that?

Bad judgement or conditions beyond one's control that result in
bankruptcy do not constitute malice or malfeasance. Just a mistake.

Would you have the state intervene and remove children for bankruptcy
and leaving children with relatives while seeking work, finding it and
working?

Leaving children with relatives constitutes have "dumped" them? Would
you say this is true for all instances where children are left with
relatives of the parents?

Beats the hell out of Atlantic City or Reno or Las Vegas for partying.

The defunding of CPS by any means is not a solution to the problems of
child abuse and psychological therapeutic needs and physical
rehabilitation so often brought on by parents....and often just such
cases are not "substantiated" even though the injuries are obvious.
Just can't nail the actual perp, or it's the second or third time into
the system from previousy "unsubstantiated" cases.

And this below is how Fern responded....rather off point, ignoring
what I had replied, as though I hadn't even responded, except to claim
an obvious typo was a spelling error.

No More Lies please, Fern.

I'm not "Financial." Nor do I understand the salutation. Unless you
meant to put it in some bracketing punctuation to denote a spelling
error, or typo.

Sure I do. Rarely use it because I know how to spell.

Does "finacial" look like a spelling error to you, or could it be, as
rational thinking persons see instantly, a typo, failure to depress a
key sufficiently to trigger a character insertion?

I actually did it again on the word "sufficiently" and had to go back
and fix it. Given the volume I post I'd say I have far fewer typos,
and certainly far fewer mistakes in word chioce appropriateness, than
you.

Which means what? That they were less expensive to care for by virtue
of the large number?

In fact two can live as cheaply as one, but 11 can't. At some point
one has to live in a bigger house, mort costly to maintain, and get a
larger vehicle..and those are more costly to maintain and operate.
Volume food purchases help, but the variety of food goes way up, given
the age ranges and the sheer number of hungry children.

I think the women was probably stupid to adopt so many kids but the
she might have been related to some of them. Who knows. I certainly
don't know enough to condemn her. I'll wait and see what the court
says.

You missed "debable?" Fine spelling net nanny you are.

planned to take

Oh, now you consider placing children with relatives, in this case
having a relative of her husbands care for them, as NOT a good idea? I
thought you were for relative placement?

And Nigeria is considerably closer to Iraq than Texas...or can't you
read a map either?

And you will note she didn't go to Iraq to gamble and drink and just
ditch the kids with the neighbors, as seems to happen rather too often
with bio parents.

Interesting that you snipped a considerable bit, without
acknowledgement, just prior to the statement of mine. I don't think I
was discussing the bio mom of the adopted children. But how is one to
tell when you remove the contextual wording?  The "Mom's" drug of
choice is hardly an issue. The problem of large sibling groups not
being cared for is. They are very hard to place together..but this
adoptive mom gave it a go.

with

Really? Tell each of the people here in this ng that has posted in
reply to you they are "NOBODY." Give us a count afterward.

DFPS.

My hope is that kinship care is never abandoned as a resource, no
matter how massively overloaded kin has become in the last two decades
by THEM HAVING TO VOLUNTEER OUTSIDE OF ANY GOVERNMENT
INVOLVEMENT..because, far too much of the time, the bio parents can't
give up partying their life away.

What few relatives are left for the state to place with are
overloaded, and even the ones that volunteer wind up having some
relative kids placed by the state... a mixed household of state
supported and not state supported children.

I have a great respect for relatives who do caregiving. It is
tradition...one I'd like to see reinstituted completely. But then
there are those relatives that are as dangerous to children as the
parents were.

You know little about this subject Fern and send misleading and lying
posts on it. Or post other's misleading and lying claims.

The "8k foster children in WA" claim is inaccurate, and the idea that
there are that many that CPS hasn't placed when the number they have,
and that relatives have taken on voluntarily outside the public
system, is far greater than that.

Rather than respond to what I posted to rebut that nonsense, you avoid
the truth...that the claim by your WA anti CPS "relatives" is false,
and go off babbling some more as though I hadn't responded.

You are dishonest. You are unfair to families and children. You try
legal cases out of court before the ruling, and you make judgements of
guilt while the defendant is still legally innocent.

You are a risk to families by giving dangerous advice here on how to
handle CPS.

You are barely articulate most of the time suggesting episodic bouts
of something.....is it drink, or mental illness, or that you aren't
one person posting, at all?

Or could it be all of those, Fern?

Kane