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Family Forum / Parenting / Step Parents / November 2004Well
What are your election thoughts? I'll admit that I'm depressed. Heather >What are your election thoughts? I'll admit that I'm depressed. > >Heather It's hard for me to believe that the American voters actually respect and support being led into a war based on lies, a huge defict and the erosion of our civil liberties. I find it particularly disturbing that Christian evangelicals can have such an impact on the culture of this country. The division of church and state is becoming alarmingly blurred. The consequences of this in the future of the Supreme Court is even farther reaching than the next four years. With the loss of Democrats in the house and senate, Kerry would've had a tough road. Now the mess Bush got us into is all his to own, fix or make worse. He can't blame it on anyone but himself and his own administration. The Progressives must not let up on the inroads they have made during this election. Deb R. >> What are your election thoughts? I'll admit that I'm depressed. >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Deb R. What inroads? I am just glad to see that mainstream Americans got out and made their voices heard. ~~Geri~~ "HUSKERS!! F**k, yeah!" >What inroads? > >I am just glad to see that mainstream Americans got out and made their >voices heard. > >~~Geri~~ Ever do any whitewater boating? The mainstream is the easy part, needing the least amount of skill, planning or creative thinking. Everyone knows that the variations in the mainstream are what makes the trip worthwhile. Of course there were inroads. You know it as well as I do. There's a progressive movement bubbling along nicely --planning for the day that the pendulum swings back the other way. That day will come, too. Deb R. >> What inroads? >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > progressive movement bubbling along nicely --planning for the day that > the pendulum swings back the other way. That day will come, too. Actually, what I see is that if the Democratic party doesn't disengage from the radical left, that pendulum may be stuck. What inroads?  Signature~~Geri~~ "HUSKERS!! F**k, yeah!" >Actually, what I see is that if the Democratic party doesn't disengage from >the radical left, that pendulum may be stuck. What inroads? On a local level (to me), the Democrats managed to fend off Mitt Romney's hand-picked, ultraconservative puppets. On a national level, Barack Obama, for one. Deb R. >> Actually, what I see is that if the Democratic party doesn't >> disengage from the radical left, that pendulum may be stuck. What [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > On a national level, Barack Obama, for one. Ok. Though beating that Keyes character was an easy win, I can give you that. I don't think the left is really going to make inroads of any consequence until they stop coming across in the red states as urban elitists propped up by Soros-type characters, Hollywood, the pointy-headed-beard-scratchers that never leave their universities, the Michael Moore/MoveOn.org crowd, the radical NOW crowd and that ilk and choose candidates that the rural, the middle-class, the suburban cul de sac-dwelling soccer moms, the "Cleaver" type of families (which do still exist in pretty good numbers when you get into the flyover country), the religious moderates (80% of Americans consider themselves Christians), white-bread Americans can relate to. Right now even some of the minorities and union workers are defecting to the Republican party because it has taken such a hard left turn. If the Dems can't figure out how to relate to the red-state people instead of dismissing them as rubes, unenlightened, unintellectual and otherwise looking down on them in a Mr. Howell-ish kind of way, I think you can look forward to more of what happened yesterday. Just my observation, of course. ~~Geri~~ "HUSKERS!! F**k, yeah!" In a previous article, "Cornhuskeress" <cahuskerfans@sbcglobalGOBIGRED.net> said: >I don't think the left is really going to make inroads of any consequence >until they stop coming across in the red states as urban elitists propped up [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >into the flyover country), the religious moderates (80% of Americans >consider themselves Christians), white-bread Americans can relate to. I think you're right. But I don't think that we (we, as in liberal America) have taken too hard a left turn, but I think that we've done it in the wrong way and disaffected a lot of folks. Wrongly, as it turns out, because a lot of liberal ideals are ideals that the mass of America agrees with, but they don't realize that they're liberal. We on the left have allowed the right to define us for years, and that's our fault. I think, though, that it's not too late; Bush didn't win by a landslide, there are plenty of Kerry supporters/neocon opponents out there. Lots, in fact. We just need to mobilize them. Vicki SignaturePower may be justly compared to a great river; while kept within its bounds it is both beautiful and useful, but when it overflows its banks, it is then too impetuous to be stemmed; it bears down all before it, and brings destruction and desolation wherever it goes." -- Alexander Hamilton. > In a previous article, "Cornhuskeress" > <cahuskerfans@sbcglobalGOBIGRED.net> said: [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > landslide, there are plenty of Kerry supporters/neocon opponents out > there. Lots, in fact. We just need to mobilize them. Actually, you may need to get them to actually show up at the polls rather than just register to vote. Signature~~Geri~~ "HUSKERS!! F**k, yeah!" > Actually, you may need to get them to actually show up at the polls rather > than just register to vote. This is one of the most curious aspects of watching your election, the voter exit polls. Surely they can potentially create a disincentive to vote for some people. Why would someone go stand in a queue for two hours if they are already being told that the candidate they were going to vote for is behind, for example? It feels like the election is based on estimates of votes, rather than counting votes properly, or have I misunderstood what's going on. Wendy T >> Actually, you may need to get them to actually show up at the polls >> rather than just register to vote. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > feels like the election is based on estimates of votes, rather than > counting votes properly, or have I misunderstood what's going on. My statement wasn't exactly in reference to that, but you are right. During our last presidential election, in fact, it is thought that information released on the news in Florida caused voters in the panhandle of the state, which is on a different time zone, not to bother to go and vote, because they thought it was already decided. The thing is, I think that people pretty much know now not to believe the exit polls (or they should), because.Republicans tend to vote later in the day. So the information that is released earlier in the day can be skewed. Where I live - in a blue state - for all practical purposes, my vote for president didn't count. The other thing that gets people out to vote, though, is that usually there are other things to vote for on the ballot, such as Congressional electionns, even all the way down to local representatives for jobs like weed controller. Where I live, we had several measures to vote on that would make changes to local and state laws. So, even if my presidential vote was basically null, my vote helped defeat things I was against and counted when I voted against our Congressional incumbent. Those things get people out to vote, too. We were at our polling place when it opened at 7:00 AM and we took SD with us so she could see how we vote. No matter who voted for who, on one hand, I thought it was cool that supposedly 60% of Americans came out to vote. I think usually it is around 40%. I wish people made more of an effort to know exactly why they were voting for their candidate of choice, but that is the way it goes. (I had an entertaining evening, if nothing else. I had on an east coast radio station on the computer, the local coverage on a radio and the TV on in the living room watching the coverage. Plus I took part in two internet conversations going on taking about the election results.) ~~Geri~~ "HUSKERS!! F**k, yeah!" Cornhuskeress wrote in > No matter who voted for who, on one hand, I thought it was cool that > supposedly 60% of Americans came out to vote. I think usually it is [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > took part in two internet conversations going on taking about the > election results.) I had a fun night election night too. DS didn't get his absentee ballot in the mail in time to send it back, so he made arrangments for a friend to drive him home so he could vote :-) (His very first election- mom is so proud :-) I offered to make them a home cooked meal since they would be here around dinner time. Approx half hour from my house, he calls and says "Ah, Mom.. I think you might want to know.. there are four of us" <G>. So, I got to meet the Curtain sewing, tea drinking next door neighbor with the cool dorm room. Nice kid. The girl that came along was cute too. I loved listening to them talk about the election, and discussing why they voted as they did and seeing them take their responsibilty to vote seriously was pretty awesome:-) I can't say I agree with their view of things necessarily, but then I'm not an idealistic 18 y/o, either. SignatureCal~ Change me to myself for email :-) > The thing is, I think that people pretty much know now not to believe the > exit polls (or they should), because.Republicans tend to vote later in the > day. So the information that is released earlier in the day can be > skewed. That's why some of the news networks started turning off their polls, remember? :) Jess >I don't think the left is really going to make inroads of any consequence >until they stop coming across in the red states as urban elitists propped up [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >~~Geri~~ See, I could match you one for one on everything you said about the left, but with a slightly different set of adjectives to describe the religious right, the moral majority, security moms, neocons, whatever. In spite of the republican win, this country is pretty much evenly divided--polarized. I could say that if the republican party hadn't taken such a hard right, and would try to appeal to the Americans who do not want the Christian evangelicals to control the details of their personal lives, and did not dismiss the progressive democrats as "pointy-headed-beard-scratchers who never leave their universities" and would be able to admit that they had made a mistake or two (or thousands) in rushing this country to war based on false pretenses, then I think a lot more could be accomplished. There are a lot of people in this country who are highly disturbed by the hard right turn the republican party has taken. Offended. Angry. Dissaffected. Distraught. Just as you say you know of union workers defecting to the republican party, I personally know of people who voted for Bush last time around who would rather chew glass than vote for him again. If the republican party can't find a way to unite the country and relate to the other half who didn't vote for them, then I think there'll be more of the same as yesterday, but in the opposite direction, once the pendulum swings back--and the pendulum always swings back eventually. Deb R. >> I don't think the left is really going to make inroads of any >> consequence until they stop coming across in the red states as urban [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > Deb R. The thing is: 1) "White-bread" Christian (not fundie) America is the majority right now, like it or not, and actually tends toward the center or slightly right of it - not the far right or left. (Even when the Hispanics become the majority, they generally are family oriented with conservative values.) The R party has not, as a party, taken a hard right turn, although certain members of it are hard right. 2) I think the Rs are more adept at galvanizing their base. For all of the Rock the Votes, Vote or Die (or my favorite - Cameron Diaz telling Oprah that, "if we don't vote, rape will become legal"), Michael Moore underwear give-aways, etc. it appears that those people did not come out and vote as expected.. I don't see the Ds as having a base so much as several special interest groups that don't necessarily have much, if anything in common. The Ds used to have a base - think Zell Miller - but they don't appeal to the old school Ds any longer. 3) This last time, you didn't have a viable candidate. I am sure he is a nice man, but he came across as an animatronic that sounded like Mr. Howell. (IMO, Lieberman would have been your best bet for electability.) Bogus things like the deer hunting trip or the trips to the ballgames, that were supposed to fool the stupid conservatives into thinking he was just like them, backfired big time because they were so phoney. He was good at MMQBing, but not good at articulating how his solutions would work. I don't think that played well with the average voter. (Even the Ds weren't voting for him as much as voting against W.) None of those things play well to the red states. At least with W, even if you didn't like him, you knew what he stood for. With Kerry, nobody knew (not to mention his wildcard wife). Edwards was supposedly chosen for likability, but the thing that came across in the debate and in his speeches was that he "tawks dayown to yeewww". That doesn't play well either. 4)Most of the Rs who don't like Bush think he either isn't conservative enough or tough enough in executing the war. The thing is, the Rs will circle the wagons when it becomes necessary. Even if they didn't vote for W, they didn't vote for Kerry either - they just left the president spot blank or put in a protest candidate. (I *am* hoping this time around, W will be introduced to this thing we like to call a pen and to do this thing we like to call a veto once in a while.) 5) Regarding that pedulum, it may not swing in our lifetime, especially depending on how many SCOTUS judges are appointed in the next 4 years and it may not be as swingy as you think anyway. Remove Ross Perot from the ticket back when Clinton was elected and you probably would have had an R for a president then. With the Rs in the driver's seat, IMO it more up to the losing side to try to patch up the division (which ain't gonna happen). ~~Geri~~ "HUSKERS!! F**k, yeah!" > What are your election thoughts? I'll admit that I'm depressed. > > Heather YAY!!!!! ~~Geri~~ "HUSKERS!! F**k, yeah!" > > What are your election thoughts? I'll admit that I'm depressed. > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > "HUSKERS!! F**k, yeah!" Celebrating more of Iraq? You like Iraq? I've read some of your previous posts in this thread and I agree with a lot of it. What I can't understand is how the Bush voters can connect Sadaam with Al Qaida, and not see that our invasion of Iraq was wrongheaded. The more Bush and his neo-cons struggled to justify it, the angrier it made me. This war is immoral by any measure. Every single death is a crime. Rumsfield and his minions should be tried in the Hague, and hung. Or perhaps sent to Iraq's Abu Gharab prison and tortured. (Written off by Rumsfield as just high spirited Guardsmen blowing off steam. A mere Franternity Prank) GAWD! I want to think that the American voters decided to let this play out, and eventually Bush and his administration will be held responsible. God knows they won't ACCEPT any responsibility on their own. To borrow a campaing gambit from Karl Rove; W can run, but he can't hide from the judgement of history. Somewhere in this God's wisdome will find it's way to our understanding. All I can do is wait till I "get it." I don't get it yet. Andy - Minneapolis >>> What are your election thoughts? I'll admit that I'm depressed. >>> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Celebrating more of Iraq? (snip of blah-blah-blah) Are you a stepparent? Do you have an issue? ~~Geri~~ "HUSKERS!! F**k, yeah!" "When Nebraska goes to Pork Chop, we all have a great big barbecue! > Are you a stepparent? Do you have an issue? What relevance has that in a thread which is nothing about step-parenting? Wendy T >> Are you a stepparent? Do you have an issue? > > What relevance has that in a thread which is nothing about > step-parenting? > > Wendy T His comment was directed to me. I would prefer not to continue with this extremely divisive topic in this ng, when there are plenty of more appropriate venues. We have already seen how nasty these threads can turn and we already know the sentiments of the majority of the group. Are you bored or something? ~~Geri~~ "HUSKERS!! F**k, yeah!" "When Nebraska goes to Pork Chop, we all have a great big barbecue! Well, to be fair Geri, you started the nastiness by saying "YAAY" to me being depressed. But it's ok, I'm a big girl :D Heather >>> Are you a stepparent? Do you have an issue? >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > "When Nebraska goes to Pork Chop, we all have a great big barbecue! > Well, to be fair Geri, you started the nastiness by saying "YAAY" to > me being depressed. But it's ok, I'm a big girl :D > > Heather I didn't start the thread. You just asked what people thought about the election results. I thought one word was better than a long protracted gloaty thing which I can indulge in elsewhere. (If you thought I meant it at you for feeling depressed, that isn't what I meant.) :-) ~~Geri~~ "HUSKERS!! F**k, yeah!" "When Nebraska goes to Pork Chop, we all have a great big barbecue! >> Well, to be fair Geri, you started the nastiness by saying "YAAY" to >> me being depressed. But it's ok, I'm a big girl :D [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > ~~Geri~~ Oh ok. I misunderstood. (hugs) muahahahahaha Heather > "HUSKERS!! F**k, yeah!" > > "When Nebraska goes to Pork Chop, we all have a great big barbecue! > His comment was directed to me. I would prefer not to continue with this > extremely divisive topic in this ng, when there are plenty of more > appropriate venues. We have already seen how nasty these threads can turn > and we already know the sentiments of the majority of the group. Are you > bored or something? Not at all bored, I just don't see why you get to post a YAY! and someone else who feels differently is supposed to know that you don't want to discuss it now. Wendy, who in case you hadn't noticed has been singularly quiet on the issue despite her strong feelings > >>> What are your election thoughts? I'll admit that I'm depressed. > >>> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >> > >> ~~Geri~~ I posted to the thread about the reaction to the election. I came to this group because I am a step-parent, I didn't come looking for a thread about the election, but it was here, and I'm still stunned that Bush was returned to office. Throw Iraq out. What has he done to diserve re-election? Health Care costs have gone thru the roof, he hasn't even addressed the issue. He cuts taxes, but everything else goes thru the roof, so when I look at the bottom line, the bottom line that feeds the step children, I'm comming out behind. He has been a do nothing, back sliding disaster. I'm puzzled by YAY!!!!! It's just not my first reaction. Kerry.....ugh....it's like voting for Custer. I didn't think Bush diserved to be re-elected, held my nose voting for Kerry, and Kerry definately diserved to lose. Oh well. America and Americans are resilient, they can survive 4 more years of this resposibility ducking goof. Well most Americans, the American service people getting killed in this nonsense "over there" won't be back..... YAY ! ! ! ! Not. >>>>> What are your election thoughts? I'll admit that I'm depressed. >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Not. Then we disagree. ~~Geri~~ "HUSKERS!! F**k, yeah!" "When Nebraska goes to Pork Chop, we all have a great big barbecue! > What are your election thoughts? I'll admit that I'm depressed. I'm disappointed that even after the election, there's still some mudslinging going on. A difference of opinion/belief/value doesn't make a person a bad person/terrorist/criminal or whatever has been slung out there. Jess |
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