Need advice on whether to have a new child [LONG]
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jl2000 - 01 Feb 2005 22:27 GMT Hi folks,
This is my first post to the group. I am trying to work through a difficult decision, and would really appreciate some input.
I am in my late thirties, married for a second time. I have a seven year old son by my first marriage. My ex-wife and I get along well, and I have regular access to my son. He comes to us every Wednesday evening, and every other weekend. He has his own room in our house, and considers it a second home.
My wife is as good a step-mum as I could wish for. She is very close to my son, and he seems as settled as he can be with the situation. My ex-wife has also remarried and they too have tried to provide as secure and happy an environment as they can for our son. We try very much to stress the positives - he has four loving parents, and eight doting grand-parents! Apart from some financial hassles, life is really pretty good.
The problem is this: my wife wants her own child. She is a few years younger than me, but is really now starting to feel the 'biological clock' ticking.
This is causing all sorts of issues for me. When we got together, we both wanted children, but agreed to wait until my son was happy with his new family arrangements (my ex-wife has recently re-married at the time). As time has passed (we have been married nearly two years now), I have grown more and more uncomfortable with the idea of us having a child of our own, to the point where if I was forced to make a final decision now, I would probably say no.
Needless to say, this is putting the future of our relationship very much in the balance. My wife really doesn't feel there's a future for our relationship if she doesn't at least have the chance to have a child of her own. While I don't think I'll ever really understand the need a woman feels to have a child, I do acknowledge it. I certainly don't want her to live a life of resentment.
I have several reasons for holding back, and have listed the most obvious ones below. I really don't know which are the most important in my mind, and it's not an exhaustive list.
1) On balance, I think the risk of disruption to my son outweighs the possible benefits. If my wife and I have a child, it will naturally spend all its time with us. My son spends about a third of his time with us, including holidays. I can't see how he will not feel, at least to some degree, like an outsider. It will be clear to him that my wife's feelings for him are not the same as those for our new child. Taking the age difference into account, I suspect the relationship between my son and a new child could only at best be nearer to an uncle-nephew/niece, than a brother-brother/sister.
2) As much as I love my wife and hope we will always be together (and am prepared to work at it!), I am painfully aware that relationships do break down. My first marriage lasted almost ten years, and I suspect neither of us ever imagined that we wouldn't be together 'till death us do part'. That is, of course, until it all started unravelling. Statistically, the chances for this second marriage are slimmer. Also, my wife and I have always stressed that we should support each other's growth and change in our relationship; in fact we wrote our vows especially to emphasise that. If my first wife and I grew apart, then it is possible that it will happen again, especially in a relationship where growth is encouraged. Whenever I contemplate what happened to my son as a result of my first marriage breaking up, and how it still affects his day-to-day life, I really can't imagine putting another child through that. I really can't imagine putting myself through it!
3) Frankly, I like things the way they are. If something happened to my ex-wife, and I had to look after my son full time, then I'd do it in a second. But I do actually enjoy having evenings when he's not around. At the very least, it gives me the opportunity to have some uninterrupted time with my wife. With a new baby on the scene, that would become infinitely more difficult. Right now, when there are hiccups in our relationship, it's because we're not spending enough quality time together. If that happens when the majority of our time is effectively child-less, how will it be when there are nappies to change? Financially we are not in a position to afford child care, and we're a long way from other members of our family.
I love my wife very much, and appreciate the sacrifices she's made for the sake of our relationship. For example, the reason we live so far from our immediate families is so that we could be nearer my son. I really don't want to lose a beautiful relationship, but at the same time I really can't see much to outweigh these concerns.
I would be extremely grateful to hear:
1) any thoughts on my reasons for holding back. I would prefer to hear comments on whether or not they're rational as opposed to judgements about how selfish I might be.
2) experiences from anyone who's been in the same situation as us. I have found lots of advice for having a baby in a step-family where all the children are living full-time with the family in question, but nothing that addresses the family with only partial access to the child. Many thanks to any and all who respond.
Jules
Lee - 02 Feb 2005 20:14 GMT <snip>
> 1) On balance, I think the risk of disruption to my son outweighs the > possible benefits. If my wife and I have a child, it will naturally [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > between my son and a new child could only at best be nearer to an > uncle-nephew/niece, than a brother-brother/sister. I've read all the other responses in this thread so far, and I think people have brought out some really good points. The one thing I haven't seen addressed has to do specifically with the above quote. You reference the disruption and possible negative consequences to your son if you and his step-mother have a child. This disruption is unavoidable and as other have pointed out, would likely occur in an intact family when a second child is born.
What I haven't seen discussed, despite the many posts that mention the possibility that your wife might leave you if you choose not to have a child with her and your acceptance of that possibility, is the impact that a divorce would have on your son. You and your wife have been married for two years and have been together for however long prior to getting married. This is a stable, loving relationship - you mentioned that she is a good step-mother and is close to your son. How would a second divorce affect him? The birth of a sibling is ultimately a joyous event, despite whatever adjustments might need to be made. There's nothing joyous about a divorce.
Just thought this was point that should be brought up. Good luck in working this out. Lee
jl2000 - 02 Feb 2005 22:30 GMT Hi Lee,
> You reference the disruption and possible negative > consequences to your son if you and his step-mother > have a child. This disruption is unavoidable and as other > have pointed out, would likely occur in an intact family > when a second child is born. Yes, but would it occur to the same degree? My son is going to have minimal time to bond with his new half-brother/sister. And there will be an age difference of at least eight years. Contrast that with an 'intact' family with siblings spending all their time together, and much closer in age.
> What I haven't seen discussed, despite the many posts that > mention the possibility that your wife might leave you if you > choose not to have a child with her and your acceptance of > that possibility, is the impact that a divorce would have on > your son. I did nearly include that in my original post, and of course I've considered it. I do realise that we could have the child, work at all the issues, and everything *might* go wonderfully. However, *if* it' doesn't, and the situation turns into one where my son is seriously unsettled, and I become resentful, and we end up splitting up... well, I'd rather take the lesser of two evils.
> How would a second divorce affect him? Honestly? My wife asked me this, and here is the answer I gave her. My son is seven. He is extremely fond of my wife, but I'm really not sure if he loves her in any child-parent sense. Maybe, maybe not - who knows the mind of a seven year old? But... when there's a choice of someone to play with, he will choose me. If I'm not in the house when he comes round, he asks "where's daddy?". If it's the other way round, well my wife just isn't missed in the same way. I suppose his main thoughts would be a) well this has happened before, and it was worse the first time because that was mummy, and b) now I get daddy to myself. It might sound callous, and I might be underestimating his feelings, but he's just seven after all.
> Good luck in working this out. Thank you so much.
Jules
The Watsons - 03 Feb 2005 00:45 GMT > Yes, but would it occur to the same degree? Of course, it would just affect different things.
>My son is going to have > minimal time to bond with his new half-brother/sister. And there will > be an age difference of at least eight years. Contrast that with an > 'intact' family with siblings spending all their time together, and > much closer in age. And? They will have whatever relationship ya'll encourage. Our daughter's brother is 2200 miles away, and he still (for the most part) loves being an older brother and loves talking to her on the phone to see if he can get her to babble back.
> I did nearly include that in my original post, and of course I've > considered it. I do realise that we could have the child, work at all > the issues, and everything *might* go wonderfully. However, *if* it' > doesn't, and the situation turns into one where my son is seriously > unsettled, and I become resentful, and we end up splitting up... well, > I'd rather take the lesser of two evils. Divorce itself isn't inherently evil-it's how it's handled.
> Honestly? My wife asked me this, and here is the answer I gave her. My > son is seven. He is extremely fond of my wife, but I'm really not sure [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > sound callous, and I might be underestimating his feelings, but he's > just seven after all. Well, yeah-that's a key point. He is only seven.
Jess
Sara - 03 Feb 2005 04:19 GMT Jules,
I am on the other side of a somewhat similar situation.
I met my boyfriend Matt two and a half years ago when he was in the middle of a divorce. His son at the time was 4 1/2. At the time I met matt, all of my friends were either getting married, already married and/or having children. Although my biological clock was not tiocking rapidly, it was nonetheless ticking and watching my friends getting pregnant was getting very hard for me. Matt and I got to talking about what we wanted in the future and at first Matt said he absolutely wanted to get married again and have more children. He soon changed his mind though for various reasons. My feelings were very hurt because I knew how vitally important his son was to him and couldn't understand why, if he loved me, he wouldn't want to share a child with me and why he wouldn't want me to know the joy of having my own child.
After spending a few weeks apart, because at that point in my life I didn't want to become involved with a person who didn't want to have [more] children, Matt explained to me the great difficulty he and his wife had getting pregnant. It took them five years and countless drugs and inseminations before Matthew was conceived through invitro. Matt told me it was he who had the problem and that he was told he would never be able to have children without medical assistance. He still wasn't entirely open to the idea of having more children but said he needed to figure things out and that he "needed some time." In the same breath he told me I didn't need to be on the pill because there was no way he could get me pregnant.
Well the make up sex was great and lo and behold the first month off the pill I got pregnant. A miracle of sorts. Lo and behold Matt told me he didn't want the baby. 24 hours later he changed his mind and apologized and now we have a fifteen month old boy who has brought more joy to both of our lives than we ever could have imagined.
Matthew is almost seven now and although there were some minor adjustment issues in the beginning, he loves having a baby brother. Matthew is at our house Wednesday evenings and every weekend. His mother is re married but so far has not had any more children. He doesn't seem to have an issue with the fact that Nicholas lives with us every day. He loves living with his mommy and wouldn't have it any other way.
I do think your reasons for not wanting another child are perfectly rational, but on the other hand I think you are looking at all of the negative possibilities and not the positive possibilities. It is very hard to explain why a woman feels such a strong need to have a child. I guess it is partly nature at work. I can say that if Matt had said for sure he didn't want anymore children I would have left him - the need IS that strong for some women. If he had refused to be a part of our baby's life I still would have had Nicholas. He has brought Matt and me so much closer together and given us new respect for one another.
I know you worry about the possibility of your second marriage failing. That is only natural. You loved your wife enough to marry her though, you put that much faith into it, allow yourself to take it one step farther... If we lived our lives based on what could go wrong, we wouldn't find much joy. Life is about taking chances. If we always waited for the "right time" we would probably get nothing done. Even if the worst happened between you and your new wife - your new child would not suffer from lack of love.
Like you, Matt and I always argued over the amount of time we had to spend together. Honestly having a baby, although admittedly very stressful in the first few months, has given us more qualilty time together. It will be a totally different experience having a baby with your wife than it was with your ex wife. You guys have a different relationship. The possibilities are endless.
The cost of daycare... well THAT is another issue entirely! but you can find a way to make it work.
Of course my opinion here is prejudiced but I am hoping you can see all of the wonderful possibilities along with the bad. Make a list of pros and cons and really try to listen to your wife and in turn open up to her with allof your feelings and fears and apprehensions. Perhaps she can offer you the comfort and the confidence you need to make this decision.
Sorry for the ramble- I hope some of it was helpful.
Sara
jl2000 - 04 Feb 2005 23:57 GMT Hi Sara,
I'm not sure how I overlooked this post. Thank you - it is one of the most encouraging things I have read since posting here. Believe me, I know there are a lot of positives that can come out of us having a child, but if that was all I was thinking about, then I wouldn't be here having this discussion! It took me long enough to think through and write my initial post (and even then I foolishly stuck the word 'advice' in the subject line!), and it has been quite an effort to keep up with people's (mainly) thoughtful replies. If I had to balance every comment I made about my concerns with an acknowledgement of the positives, well I'd have to either give up work, or sleep. I need my job, and I'm already losing enough sleep over this issue!
[Seriously, I have always been a heavy sleeper, and am known for sleeping through heavy thunderstorms; for the first time in my life I am waking up in the middle of the night with no idea why... and no, it's not my bladder!]
Thanks again,
Jules
rebecca - 03 Feb 2005 22:40 GMT Jules,
Don't take this the wrong way, okay, but your posts SCREAM to me that you're scared shitless, not that you're trying to protect your son.
Your son will be fine. He's got you and his mom. And however you may want to minimize the effect a divorce between you and your wife, I can tell you from experience that he'll be strongly affected. Every person I know with a parent with multiple divorces came away from it badly... your son will wonder what's wrong with you that you can't keep a relationship together. When you start dating again, he'll be hesitant to attach to anyone, knowing that you've f.cked up important relationships in the past. And God forbid he actually know that you and your wife divorced because you didn't want to make HIM suffer through a new sibling, and that's just a recipe for lifetime therapy.
Don't put this on your kid. If you don't want another child, have the balls to admit that it is you, and don't blame your son for it. That's too much responsibility.
rebecca
> Hi Lee, > [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > Jules Tracey - 03 Feb 2005 22:59 GMT > Every person I know with a parent with multiple divorces came away > from it badly... I was engaged once to a man whose father was on his fifth or sixth marriage. Mike had, IIRC, 3 half-sisters and all of them had different mothers. From early on in our dating, we talked about his family and how he was never, ever, EVER going to get married or have kids because he was totally terrified that he was like his father and he and his mother had had such a rough time of it that he *refused* to take the chance of someday subjecting another child, his child, to what he had went through.
Since I said I was engaged to him, it's obvious he got over the 'never going to get married' part. He did. For a while. In fact, he got over the 'never going to get married' part I think three times with me. You see, we got engaged. Then he broke it off. Then he de- cided he *could* get married. Then he broke it off again. Then he changed his mind again and then he broke it off again. <smile>
All of this 'engaged-not engaged-engaged-not engaged' stuff happened in the space of about a year. I still heard about him after we had broken it off completely for a while and he had gone back to his MO from before we dated/got engaged of going from woman to woman to woman. The last I heard, he was rampaging through the stripper popu- lation of a southern Florida town and was living with his 3rd strip- per in the space of a year or two.
Tracey
jl2000 - 04 Feb 2005 23:20 GMT Hi Rebecca,
> Don't take this the wrong way, okay, but your posts > SCREAM to me that you're scared shitless, not that > you're trying to protect your son. Have you discounted the possibilty that both are going on? Most people posting on this thread have acknowledged that my concerns are valid. I'm also aware that my desire to keep the status quo is essentially fear of change, which is probably magnifying my other concerns.
> And however you may want to minimize the effect a > divorce between you and your wife, I can tell you from > experience that he'll be strongly affected. I realise this. The best I've ever described this scenario as, is the lesser of two evils.
> When you start dating again, he'll be hesitant to > attach to anyone, knowing that you've f.cked up > important relationships in the past. Not going to happen. I decided before my wife and I got married that if our relationship ever went pear-shaped, then that would be it. I won't be serial-dating strippers in any future I can imagine (see Tracey's reply to your post)!
> And God forbid he actually know that you and your > wife divorced because you didn't want to make HIM > suffer through a new sibling, and that's just a recipe for > lifetime therapy. Look, I do some idiotic things, but I'm not a *total* idiot, okay? No one but me is responsible for my decision. Not my son, not my wife. Not even you guys out there in web-land.
In this thread, I have only asked for opinions on whether my fears were rational, and experiences from people who have been in similar situations. I'm certainly not interested in being told what to do or not to do, or being judged, as is happening in several posts.
Jules
Sarah McCalaster - 05 Feb 2005 02:11 GMT Honestly? My wife asked me this, and here is the answer I gave her. My son is seven. He is extremely fond of my wife, but I'm really not sure if he loves her in any child-parent sense. Maybe, maybe not - who knows the mind of a seven year old? But... when there's a choice of someone to play with, he will choose me. If I'm not in the house when he comes round, he asks "where's daddy?". If it's the other way round, well my wife just isn't missed in the same way. I suppose his main thoughts would be a) well this has happened before, and it was worse the first time because that was mummy, and b) now I get daddy to myself. It might sound callous, and I might be underestimating his feelings, but he's just seven after all.
OH MY GOD! DUDE! are you actually for real? you are his dad! no wonder he chooses to play with you, why would he want to play with his sm.? you act like your wife is nothing, you should think about her for a change. (and let her go)
It sounds like YOU make all the decisions, am I right?
My SD bonded instantly with the new baby. and she is not here ALL the time. she loves that child, it's my husband that did NOT want the baby, and YES he has resentment, and now I do, and so on and so on..etc.
your'e willing to get a divorce over this, apparently you talked the D word more than the B word.
you need to take a hike. you are selfish! your son will rule your life...I see that already!
you do not deserve you wife,
Do you think you are all that, and she is going to be happy with looking at you and your sons face for the rest of her life? at least her own baby would give her something pleasant in life..
and you say money is an issue, you can't even afford this. WHY on earth did she marry you?
please name some of your qualities that would lead a woman to get involved with you????
unlesssss you lied and told her you wanted to have a child!
I'm going to say it again..do not do it! you don't deserve another child.
sorry everyone esle, I don't mean to sound mean. JMO..
FYI. I did have my child that my husband did not want because of his other child. and I now have the LOVE OF MY LIFE! i love my daughter more than anyone else in this world...
If I were her (the wife) i would go to a sperm bank OR go get a (good) lay and forget you!
Lee - 05 Feb 2005 02:43 GMT <snip>
Troll. Don't bother replying, Jules. Lee
Sarah McCalaster - 05 Feb 2005 03:25 GMT Where do you get that I am a troll? Sorry I have a strong opinion on this. sorry if you do not agree.
Not trolling or flaming.
just someone who has BTDT!
jl2000 - 05 Feb 2005 10:05 GMT Sarah,
I've replied to your post under what now seems to be the main thread. I think it would really help to read the whole thread, rather than just attack someone without understanding the situation.
Jules
Cornhuskeress - 05 Feb 2005 15:56 GMT > Honestly? My wife asked me this, and here is the answer I gave her. My > son is seven. He is extremely fond of my wife, but I'm really not sure [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > If I were her (the wife) i would go to a sperm bank OR go get a (good) > lay and forget you! With apologies to all of the nice parents that I know on this group in advance - Sarah, your posts are the most judgmental breeder crap I have seen posted in this group in a very long time. Honey, you don't deserve your husband for being selfish enough to get pregnant against his wishes and the person who is going to suffer the most for your selfishness is your child.
~~Geri~~ (Sanctimonious Cornhusker Beeyotch)
"I hate my hat!"
*Calinda* - 05 Feb 2005 16:04 GMT > With apologies to all of the nice parents that I know on this group in > advance - Sarah, your posts are the most judgmental breeder crap I > have seen posted in this group in a very long time. Honey, you don't > deserve your husband for being selfish enough to get pregnant against > his wishes and the person who is going to suffer the most for your > selfishness is your child. Geri, I totally agree, and I am a parent, as you know. I started reading her crap and the first thought was what a bunch of *BS*... So, as far as I'm concerned no apologies are necessary.
 Signature Cal~
Calinda dot Letter S at Gmail dot com
Barbera - 03 Feb 2005 10:29 GMT [SNIP]
Jules,
I can't tell you what to do or how to feel, but I can tell you my story. I was in the position your wife is in.
When I got married, my ex already had a daughter aged 9. A bit older than your son, but not much. At first she just visited us, but then she came to live with us full time.
I really wanted to have a child, just like your wife. We agreed on trying to have one. We told his daughter that we were trying, and she got incredibly upset and angry. So angry, that she did things like tear up my clothes (when we told her that I was indeed pregnant, about a year and a half later). She also hid my vitamin pills (the reason: "you said those pills would help you get a healthy baby, so I thought if I took the pills the baby might die"), and when I was about 8 months pregnant she even kicked me in the stomach a couple of times.
We talked and talked to her .. trying to find out the reason for her anger. We explained to her that there wasn't a set amount of love (like 10 pounds) to be divided between all people, that if there was a new baby, it wouldn't be like the baby got 5 of HER 10 pounds of love, but that there was always enough love for everybody. She would still get her 10 pounds of love, that wouldn't change. Since all this didn't seem to get through to her, we got some help from a psychologist. That didn't help either, because she refused to cooperate with the psychologist (and because her dad thought it was all nonsense, nothing wrong with his daughter).
After the baby was born, she started to misbehave even more. The worst thing was that her dad didn't want to deal with that, and sort of left me to do it. She started making remarks like "and what if something happened to the baby", and I got very scared and protective. One night when my baby was 6 months old, my stepdaughter went to the baby room in the middle of the night, and (thank god for baby monitors) I heard her say: "I'll make sure you don't take my daddy away from me" ..... I ran in and pulled her away from the baby's bed.
When my husband still couldn't see any fault with his daughter after this incident, and still thought I was exaggerating or something, I left (with my daughter, of course) and filed for divorce.
Now my little girl is 2,5. Her father hasn't shown any interest in her whatsoever since I left. He doesn't communicate with me at all, never asks about her, never sends her a birthday card or anything. I wonder if he was honest with me, when he said he did want to try and have a baby with me, or that he just said yes because I wanted it so badly. And to be honest .. I wanted it so badly, that I would probably have tried to get pregnant even if I HAD know that he was only doing it for me. This feeling that women get can be very, very strong .. and it can do strange things to even the most sensible woman.
Anyway .. my daughter and I are very happy now .. I definitely have no regrets about having her at all. I don't look forward to that time somewhere in the future, where I'm going to have to tell her that her biological father chose not to be involved in her life .. but that's a whole different story.
Barbera
> Hi folks, > [quoted text clipped - 95 lines] > > Jules jl2000 - 04 Feb 2005 15:13 GMT Barbera,
Thank you so much for sharing this - I'm sorry I haven't replied to you sooner. I'm really sorry you had to go through all that to be where you are now. I certainly wouldn't want to put my wife through anything like what you've been through. Your ex really showed his true colours when the going got tough, huh? Did you have no idea that he would be so unsupportive?
> I would probably have tried to get pregnant even if > I HAD know that he was only doing it for me. This > feeling that women get can be very, very strong .. > and it can do strange things to even the most > sensible woman. Yes, although I really don't think my wife will start sabotaging condoms, as someone implied in what's turned out to be the main thread! She's just not the type.
Thanks again,
Jules
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