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Family Forum / Parenting / Step Parents / February 2005



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Need advice on whether to have a new child [LONG]

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jl2000 - 01 Feb 2005 22:27 GMT
Hi folks,

This is my first post to the group. I am trying to work through a
difficult decision, and would really appreciate some input.

I am in my late thirties, married for a second time. I have a seven
year old son by my first marriage. My ex-wife and I get along well, and
I have regular access to my son. He comes to us every Wednesday
evening, and every other weekend. He has his own room in our house, and
considers it a second home.

My wife is as good a step-mum as I could wish for. She is very close to
my son, and he seems as settled as he can be with the situation. My
ex-wife has also remarried and they too have tried to provide as secure
and happy an environment as they can for our son. We try very much to
stress the positives - he has four loving parents, and eight doting
grand-parents! Apart from some financial hassles, life is really pretty
good.

The problem is this: my wife wants her own child. She is a few years
younger than me, but is really now starting to feel the 'biological
clock' ticking.

This is causing all sorts of issues for me. When we got together, we
both wanted children, but agreed to wait until my son was happy with
his new family arrangements (my ex-wife has recently re-married at the
time). As time has passed (we have been married nearly two years now),
I have grown more and more uncomfortable with the idea of us having a
child of our own, to the point where if I was forced to make a final
decision now, I would probably say no.

Needless to say, this is putting the future of our relationship very
much in the balance. My wife really doesn't feel there's a future for
our relationship if she doesn't at least have the chance to have a
child of her own. While I don't think I'll ever really understand the
need a woman feels to have a child, I do acknowledge it. I certainly
don't want her to live a life of resentment.

I have several reasons for holding back, and have listed the most
obvious ones below. I really don't know which are the most important in
my mind, and it's not an exhaustive list.

1) On balance, I think the risk of disruption to my son outweighs the
possible benefits. If my wife and I have a child, it will naturally
spend all its time with us. My son spends about a third of his time
with us, including holidays. I can't see how he will not feel, at least
to some degree, like an outsider. It will be clear to him that my
wife's feelings for him are not the same as those for our new child.
Taking the age difference into account, I suspect the relationship
between my son and a new child could only at best be nearer to an
uncle-nephew/niece, than a brother-brother/sister.

2) As much as I love my wife and hope we will always be together (and
am prepared to work at it!), I am painfully aware that relationships do
break down. My first marriage lasted almost ten years, and I suspect
neither of us ever imagined that we wouldn't be together 'till death us
do part'. That is, of course, until it all started unravelling.
Statistically, the chances for this second marriage are slimmer. Also,
my wife and I have always stressed that we should support each other's
growth and change in our relationship; in fact we wrote our vows
especially to emphasise that. If my first wife and I grew apart, then
it is possible that it will happen again, especially in a relationship
where growth is encouraged. Whenever I contemplate what happened to my
son as a result of my first marriage breaking up, and how it still
affects his day-to-day life, I really can't imagine putting another
child through that. I really can't imagine putting myself through it!

3) Frankly, I like things the way they are. If something happened to my
ex-wife, and I had to look after my son full time, then I'd do it in a
second. But I do actually enjoy having evenings when he's not around.
At the very least, it gives me the opportunity to have some
uninterrupted time with my wife. With a new baby on the scene, that
would become infinitely more difficult. Right now, when there are
hiccups in our relationship, it's because we're not spending enough
quality time together. If that happens when the majority of our time is
effectively child-less, how will it be when there are nappies to
change? Financially we are not in a position to afford child care, and
we're a long way from other members of our family.

I love my wife very much, and appreciate the sacrifices she's made for
the sake of our relationship. For example, the reason we live so far
from our immediate families is so that we could be nearer my son. I
really don't want to lose a beautiful relationship, but at the same
time I really can't see much to outweigh these concerns.

I would be extremely grateful to hear:

1) any thoughts on my reasons for holding back. I would prefer
to hear comments on whether or not they're rational as
opposed to judgements about how selfish I might be.

2) experiences from anyone who's been in the same situation
as us. I have found lots of advice for having a baby in
a step-family where all the children are living full-time
with the family in question, but nothing that addresses
the family with only partial access to the child.
Many thanks to any and all who respond.

Jules
Lee - 02 Feb 2005 20:14 GMT
<snip>
> 1) On balance, I think the risk of disruption to my son outweighs the
> possible benefits. If my wife and I have a child, it will naturally
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> between my son and a new child could only at best be nearer to an
> uncle-nephew/niece, than a brother-brother/sister.

I've read all the other responses in this thread so far, and I think
people have brought out some really good points. The one thing I haven't
seen addressed has to do specifically with the above quote. You
reference the disruption and possible negative consequences to your son
if you and his step-mother have a child. This disruption is unavoidable
and as other have pointed out, would likely occur in an intact family
when a second child is born.

What I haven't seen discussed, despite the many posts that mention the
possibility that your wife might leave you if you choose not to have a
child with her and your acceptance of that possibility, is the impact
that a divorce would have on your son. You and your wife have been
married for two years and have been together for however long prior to
getting married. This is a stable, loving relationship - you mentioned
that she is a good step-mother and is close to your son. How would a
second divorce affect him? The birth of a sibling is ultimately a joyous
event, despite whatever adjustments might need to be made. There's
nothing joyous about a divorce.

Just thought this was point that should be brought up. Good luck in
working this out.
Lee
jl2000 - 02 Feb 2005 22:30 GMT
Hi Lee,

> You reference the disruption and possible negative
> consequences to your son if you and his step-mother
> have a child. This disruption is unavoidable and as other
> have pointed out, would likely occur in an intact family
> when a second child is born.

Yes, but would it occur to the same degree? My son is going to have
minimal time to bond with his new half-brother/sister. And there will
be an age difference of at least eight years. Contrast that with an
'intact' family with siblings spending all their time together, and
much closer in age.

> What I haven't seen discussed, despite the many posts that
> mention the possibility that your wife might leave you if you
> choose not to have a child with her and your acceptance of
> that possibility, is the impact that a divorce would have on
> your son.

I did nearly include that in my original post, and of course I've
considered it. I do realise that we could have the child, work at all
the issues, and everything *might* go wonderfully. However, *if* it'
doesn't, and the situation turns into one where my son is seriously
unsettled, and I become resentful, and we end up splitting up... well,
I'd rather take the lesser of two evils.

> How would a second divorce affect him?

Honestly? My wife asked me this, and here is the answer I gave her. My
son is seven. He is extremely fond of my wife, but I'm really not sure
if he loves her in any child-parent sense. Maybe, maybe not - who knows
the mind of a seven year old? But... when there's a choice of someone
to play with, he will choose me. If I'm not in the house when he comes
round, he asks "where's daddy?". If it's the other way round, well my
wife just isn't missed in the same way. I suppose his main thoughts
would be a) well this has happened before, and it was worse the first
time because that was mummy, and b) now I get daddy to myself. It might
sound callous, and I might be underestimating his feelings, but he's
just seven after all.
> Good luck in working this out.

Thank you so much.

Jules
The Watsons - 03 Feb 2005 00:45 GMT
> Yes, but would it occur to the same degree?

Of course, it would just affect different things.

>My son is going to have
> minimal time to bond with his new half-brother/sister. And there will
> be an age difference of at least eight years. Contrast that with an
> 'intact' family with siblings spending all their time together, and
> much closer in age.

And? They will have whatever relationship ya'll encourage. Our daughter's
brother is 2200 miles away, and he still (for the most part) loves being an
older brother and loves talking to her on the phone to see if he can get her
to babble back.

> I did nearly include that in my original post, and of course I've
> considered it. I do realise that we could have the child, work at all
> the issues, and everything *might* go wonderfully. However, *if* it'
> doesn't, and the situation turns into one where my son is seriously
> unsettled, and I become resentful, and we end up splitting up... well,
> I'd rather take the lesser of two evils.

Divorce itself isn't inherently evil-it's how it's handled.

> Honestly? My wife asked me this, and here is the answer I gave her. My
> son is seven. He is extremely fond of my wife, but I'm really not sure
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> sound callous, and I might be underestimating his feelings, but he's
> just seven after all.

Well, yeah-that's a key point. He is only seven.

Jess
Sara - 03 Feb 2005 04:19 GMT
Jules,

I am on the other side of a somewhat similar situation.

I met my boyfriend Matt two and a half years ago when he was in the
middle of a divorce.  His son at the time was 4 1/2.  At the time I met
matt, all of my friends were either getting married, already married
and/or having children.  Although my biological clock was not tiocking
rapidly, it was nonetheless ticking and watching my friends getting
pregnant was getting very hard for me.  Matt and I got to talking about
what we wanted in the future and at first Matt said he absolutely
wanted to get married again and have more children.  He soon changed
his mind though for various reasons.  My feelings were very hurt
because I knew how vitally important his son was to him and couldn't
understand why, if he loved me, he wouldn't want to share a child with
me and why he wouldn't want me to know the joy of having my own child.

After spending a few weeks apart, because at that point in my life I
didn't want to become involved with a person who didn't want to have
[more] children, Matt explained to me the great difficulty he and his
wife had getting pregnant.  It took them five years and countless drugs
and inseminations before Matthew was conceived through invitro.  Matt
told me it was he who had the problem and that he was told he would
never be able to have children without medical assistance.  He still
wasn't entirely open to the idea of having more children but said he
needed to figure things out and that he "needed some time."  In the
same breath he told me I didn't need to be on the pill because there
was no way he could get me pregnant.

Well the make up sex was great and lo and behold the first month off
the pill I got pregnant.  A miracle of sorts.  Lo and behold Matt told
me he didn't want the baby.  24 hours later he changed his mind and
apologized and now we have a fifteen month old boy who has brought more
joy to both of our lives than we ever could have imagined.

Matthew is almost seven now and although there were some minor
adjustment issues in the beginning, he loves having a baby brother.
Matthew is at our house Wednesday evenings and every weekend.  His
mother is re married but so far has not had any more children.  He
doesn't seem to have an issue with the fact that Nicholas lives with us
every day.  He loves living with his mommy and wouldn't have it any
other way.

I do think your reasons for not wanting another child are perfectly
rational, but on the other hand I think you are looking at all of the
negative possibilities and not the positive possibilities.  It is very
hard to explain why a woman feels such a strong need to have a child.
I guess it is partly nature at work.  I can say that if Matt had said
for sure he didn't want anymore children I would have left him - the
need IS that strong for some women.  If he had refused to be a part of
our baby's life I still would have had Nicholas. He has brought Matt
and me so much closer together and given us new respect for one
another.

I know you worry about the possibility of your second marriage failing.
That is only natural.  You loved your wife enough to marry her though,
you put that much faith into it, allow yourself to take it one step
farther...  If we lived our lives based on what could go wrong, we
wouldn't find much joy.  Life is about taking chances.  If we always
waited for the "right time" we would probably get nothing done.  Even
if the worst happened between you and your new wife - your new child
would not suffer from lack of love.

Like you, Matt and I always argued over the amount of time we had to
spend together.  Honestly having a baby, although admittedly very
stressful in the first few months, has given us more qualilty time
together.  It will be a totally different experience having a baby with
your wife than it was with your ex wife.  You guys have a different
relationship.  The possibilities are endless.

The cost of daycare... well THAT is another issue entirely!  but you
can find a way to make it work.

Of course my opinion here is prejudiced but I am hoping you can see all
of the wonderful possibilities along with the bad.  Make a list of pros
and cons and really try to listen to your wife and in turn open up to
her with allof your feelings and fears and apprehensions.  Perhaps she
can offer you the comfort and the confidence you need to make this
decision.

Sorry for the ramble- I hope some of it was helpful.

Sara
jl2000 - 04 Feb 2005 23:57 GMT
Hi Sara,

I'm not sure how I overlooked this post. Thank you - it is one of the
most encouraging things I have read since posting here. Believe me, I
know there are a lot of positives that can come out of us having a
child, but if that was all I was thinking about, then I wouldn't be
here having this discussion! It took me long enough to think through
and write my initial post (and even then I foolishly stuck the word
'advice' in the subject line!), and it has been quite an effort to keep
up with people's (mainly) thoughtful replies. If I had to balance every
comment I made about my concerns with an acknowledgement of the
positives, well I'd have to either give up work, or sleep. I need my
job, and I'm already losing enough sleep over this issue!

[Seriously, I have always been a heavy sleeper, and am known for
sleeping through heavy thunderstorms; for the first time in my life I
am waking up in the middle of the night with no idea why... and no,
it's not my bladder!]

Thanks again,

Jules
rebecca - 03 Feb 2005 22:40 GMT
Jules,

Don't take this the wrong way, okay, but your posts SCREAM to me that you're
scared shitless, not that you're trying to protect your son.

Your son will be fine.  He's got you and his mom.  And however you may want
to minimize the effect a divorce between you and your wife, I can tell you
from experience that he'll be strongly affected.  Every person I know with a
parent with multiple divorces came away from it badly... your son will
wonder what's wrong with you that you can't keep a relationship together.
When you start dating again, he'll be hesitant to attach to anyone, knowing
that you've f.cked up important relationships in the past.  And God forbid
he actually know that you and your wife divorced because you didn't want to
make HIM suffer through a new sibling, and that's just a recipe for lifetime
therapy.

Don't put this on your kid.  If you don't want another child, have the balls
to admit that it is you, and don't blame your son for it.  That's too much
responsibility.

rebecca

> Hi Lee,
>
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
>
> Jules
Tracey - 03 Feb 2005 22:59 GMT
>  Every person I know with a parent with multiple divorces came away
> from it badly...

I was engaged once to a man whose father was on his fifth or sixth
marriage. Mike had, IIRC, 3 half-sisters and all of them had different
mothers. From early on in our dating, we talked about his family and
how he was never, ever, EVER going to get married or have kids because
he was totally terrified that he was like his father and he and his
mother had had such a rough time of it that he *refused* to take the
chance of someday subjecting another child, his child, to what he had
went through.

Since I said I was engaged to him, it's obvious he got over the
'never going to get married' part. He did. For a while. In fact,
he got over the 'never going to get married' part I think three times
with me. You see, we got engaged. Then he broke it off. Then he de-
cided he *could* get married. Then he broke it off again. Then he
changed his mind again and then he broke it off again. <smile>

All of this 'engaged-not engaged-engaged-not engaged' stuff happened
in the space of about a year. I still heard about him after we had
broken it off completely for a while and he had gone back to his
MO from before we dated/got engaged of going from woman to woman to
woman. The last I heard, he was rampaging through the stripper popu-
lation of a southern Florida town and was living with his 3rd strip-
per in the space of a year or two.

Tracey
jl2000 - 04 Feb 2005 23:20 GMT
Hi Rebecca,

> Don't take this the wrong way, okay, but your posts
> SCREAM to me that you're scared shitless, not that
> you're trying to protect your son.

Have you discounted the possibilty that both are going on? Most people
posting on this thread have acknowledged that my concerns are valid.
I'm also aware that my desire to keep the status quo is essentially
fear of change, which is probably magnifying my other concerns.

> And however you may want to minimize the effect a
> divorce between you and your wife, I can tell you from
> experience that he'll be strongly affected.

I realise this. The best I've ever described this scenario as, is the
lesser of two evils.

> When you start dating again, he'll be hesitant to
> attach to anyone, knowing that you've f.cked up
> important relationships in the past.

Not going to happen. I decided before my wife and I got married that if
our relationship ever went pear-shaped, then that would be it. I won't
be serial-dating strippers in any future I can imagine (see Tracey's
reply to your post)!

> And God forbid he actually know that you and your
> wife divorced because you didn't want to make HIM
> suffer through a new sibling, and that's just a recipe for
> lifetime therapy.

Look, I do some idiotic things, but I'm not a *total* idiot, okay? No
one but me is responsible for my decision. Not my son, not my wife. Not
even you guys out there in web-land.

In this thread, I have only asked for opinions on whether my fears were
rational, and experiences from people who have been in similar
situations. I'm certainly not interested in being told what to do or
not to do, or being judged, as is happening in several posts.

Jules
Sarah McCalaster - 05 Feb 2005 02:11 GMT
Honestly? My wife asked me this, and here is the answer I gave her. My
son is seven. He is extremely fond of my wife, but I'm really not sure
if he loves her in any child-parent sense. Maybe, maybe not - who knows
the mind of a seven year old? But... when there's a choice of someone to
play with, he will choose me. If I'm not in the house when he comes
round, he asks "where's daddy?". If it's the other way round, well my
wife just isn't missed in the same way. I suppose his main thoughts
would be a) well this has happened before, and it was worse the first
time because that was mummy, and b) now I get daddy to myself. It might
sound callous, and I might be underestimating his feelings, but he's
just seven after all.

OH MY GOD!  DUDE! are you actually for real? you are his dad!
no wonder he chooses to ‘play’ with you, why would he want to play
with his sm.?
you act like your wife is nothing, you should think about her for a
change.
(and let her go)

It sounds like YOU make all the decisions, am I right?

My SD bonded instantly with the new baby. and she is not here ALL the
time.
she loves that child, it's my husband that did NOT want the baby, and
YES he has resentment, and now I do, and so on and so on..etc.

your'e willing to get a divorce over this, apparently you talked the D
word more than the B word.

you need to take a hike.
you are selfish!
your son will rule your life...I see that already!

you do not deserve you wife,

Do you think you are all that, and she is going to be happy with looking
at you and your sons face for the rest of her life?
at least her own baby would give her something pleasant in life..

and you say money is an issue, you can't even afford this. WHY on earth
did she marry you?

please name some of your qualities that would lead a woman to get
involved with you????

unlesssss you lied and told her you wanted to have a child!

I'm going to say it again..do not do it!
you don't deserve another child.

sorry everyone esle, I don't mean to sound mean. JMO..

FYI. I did have my child that my husband did not want because of his
other child.
and I now have the LOVE OF MY LIFE!
i love my daughter more than anyone else in this world...

If I were her (the wife) i would go to a sperm bank OR go get a (good)
lay and forget you!
Lee - 05 Feb 2005 02:43 GMT
<snip>

Troll. Don't bother replying, Jules.
Lee
Sarah McCalaster - 05 Feb 2005 03:25 GMT
Where do you get that I am a troll?
Sorry I have a strong opinion on this. sorry if you do not agree.

Not trolling or flaming.

just someone who has BTDT!
jl2000 - 05 Feb 2005 10:05 GMT
Sarah,

I've replied to your post under what now seems to be the main thread. I
think it would really help to read the whole thread, rather than just
attack someone without understanding the situation.

Jules
Cornhuskeress - 05 Feb 2005 15:56 GMT
> Honestly? My wife asked me this, and here is the answer I gave her. My
> son is seven. He is extremely fond of my wife, but I'm really not sure
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
> If I were her (the wife) i would go to a sperm bank OR go get a (good)
> lay and forget you!

With apologies to all of the nice parents that I know on this group in
advance - Sarah,  your posts are the most judgmental breeder crap I have
seen posted in this group in a very long time.  Honey, you don't deserve
your husband for being selfish enough to get pregnant against his wishes and
the person who is going to suffer the most for your selfishness is your
child.

~~Geri~~
(Sanctimonious Cornhusker Beeyotch)

"I hate my hat!"
*Calinda* - 05 Feb 2005 16:04 GMT
> With apologies to all of the nice parents that I know on this group in
> advance - Sarah,  your posts are the most judgmental breeder crap I
> have seen posted in this group in a very long time.  Honey, you don't
> deserve your husband for being selfish enough to get pregnant against
> his wishes and the person who is going to suffer the most for your
> selfishness is your child.

Geri, I totally agree, and I am a parent, as you know.  I started reading
her crap and the first thought was what a bunch of *BS*... So, as far as
I'm concerned no apologies are necessary.

Signature

Cal~

Calinda dot Letter S at Gmail dot com

Barbera - 03 Feb 2005 10:29 GMT
[SNIP]

Jules,

I can't tell you what to do or how to feel, but I can tell you my story. I
was in the position your wife is in.

When I got married, my ex already had a daughter aged 9. A bit older than
your son, but not much. At first she just visited us, but then she came to
live with us full time.

I really wanted to have a child, just like your wife. We agreed on trying to
have one. We told his daughter that we were trying, and she got incredibly
upset and angry. So angry, that she did things like tear up my clothes (when
we told her that I was indeed pregnant, about a year and a half later). She
also hid my vitamin pills (the reason: "you said those pills would help you
get a healthy baby, so I thought if I took the pills the baby might die"),
and when I was about 8 months pregnant she even kicked me in the stomach a
couple of times.

We talked and talked to her .. trying to find out the reason for her anger.
We explained to her that there wasn't a set amount of love (like 10 pounds)
to be divided between all people, that if there was a new baby, it wouldn't
be like the baby got 5 of HER 10 pounds of love, but that there was always
enough love for everybody. She would still get her 10 pounds of love, that
wouldn't change. Since all this didn't seem to get through to her, we got
some help from a psychologist. That didn't help either, because she refused
to cooperate with the psychologist (and because her dad thought it was all
nonsense, nothing wrong with his daughter).

After the baby was born, she started to misbehave even more. The worst thing
was that her dad didn't want to deal with that, and sort of left me to do
it. She started making remarks like "and what if something happened to the
baby", and I got very scared and protective. One night when my baby was 6
months old, my stepdaughter went to the baby room in the middle of the
night, and (thank god for baby monitors) I heard her say: "I'll make sure
you don't take my daddy away from me" ..... I ran in and pulled her away
from the baby's bed.

When my husband still couldn't see any fault with his daughter after this
incident, and still thought I was exaggerating or something, I left (with my
daughter, of course) and filed for divorce.

Now my little girl is 2,5. Her father hasn't shown any interest in her
whatsoever since I left. He doesn't communicate with me at all, never asks
about her, never sends her a birthday card or anything. I wonder if he was
honest with me, when he said he did want to try and have a baby with me, or
that he just said yes because I wanted it so badly. And to be honest .. I
wanted it so badly, that I would probably have tried to get pregnant even if
I HAD know that he was only doing it for me. This feeling that women get can
be very, very strong .. and it can do strange things to even the most
sensible woman.

Anyway .. my daughter and I are very happy now .. I definitely have no
regrets about having her at all. I don't look forward to that time somewhere
in the future, where I'm going to have to tell her that her biological
father chose not to be involved in her life .. but that's a whole different
story.

Barbera

> Hi folks,
>
[quoted text clipped - 95 lines]
>
> Jules
jl2000 - 04 Feb 2005 15:13 GMT
Barbera,

Thank you so much for sharing this - I'm sorry I haven't replied to you
sooner. I'm really sorry you had to go through all that to be where you
are now. I certainly wouldn't want to put my wife through anything like
what you've been through. Your ex really showed his true colours when
the going got tough, huh? Did you have no idea that he would be so
unsupportive?

> I would probably have tried to get pregnant even if
> I HAD know that he was only doing it for me. This
> feeling that women get can be very, very strong ..
> and it can do strange things to even the most
> sensible woman.

Yes, although I really don't think my wife will start sabotaging
condoms, as someone implied in what's turned out to be the main thread!
She's just not the type.

Thanks again,

Jules
 
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