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Fussy eaters

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Angel - 18 Jan 2006 23:08 GMT
I have 2 sons and both are fussy eaters. The eldest (6 years) is by far the
worst, all he will eat is hot dogs, wheetos and the usual crisps, biscuits,
sweets etc... He used to eat chicken nuggets, tomato soup with bread in,
beans on toast, sausages, burgers although I know this is no good either. It
just seems to be getting beyond a joke. I am at the end of my tether with
his eating habits and I know it's all my fault. I don't know how it's came
to this because when he was a baby he got all mashed fruit and veg etc, I
used to think he would be a great eater but it's all went wrong.  I worried
too much about him chocking on a piece of apple or gammon, he used to gag at
everything and so I used to crush everything up for him for months. I really
want things to change because I know it's down to me as his mum to make sure
he is eating a balanced diet but I don't know if my nerves can take the
stress. I made him tomato soup for his lunch today and gave him a separate
bowl of bread cut into little squares so he could put them in the bowl
himself but he just dipped the tiniest little edge of this 1cm square piece
of bread into it and barely eat any of the bread either. He was saying "I've
had enough" which he always says to get out of eating something and then he
was saying "I don't like it". I asked him why because he liked it last week
and he just stares at me and says nothing, he made me so angry I just
flipped and grabbed him and shouted into his face that I was so fed up with
him not eating stuff but he doesn't give a toss. This has been building up
for some time now with him cutting out more and more of the things he will
eat, all he wants is rubbish. The 4 year old is a bit better, he'll eat fish
and things like salted popcorn, sunflower seeds, cheese etc... but neither
of them will try anything new. if you try to give them something it's as
though you're putting sh.t on a plate, they have no desire to try anything
although I know they would like it, I would make pasta, chicken curry, mince
and mashed potatoes, chicken and potatoes, etc.. I want to cook for them,
have a family meal but I just don't know what to do, please help.
Sidheag McCormack - 18 Jan 2006 23:52 GMT
I'm sure other people will have more detail, but my advice would be:

- remember you can't make them eat, nor should you try. Your job is to put
good food in front of them. Whether they eat it is up to them.

- don't make eating a power struggle. You can only lose. (It obviously *is*
a power struggle at the moment, and you obviously *are* losing - you'll
have to back off, and this won't be easy. You might want to tell them that
that's what you're doing. "I've realised that it's not my job to make you
eat, it's only my job to offer you food".)

- remember that they won't starve themselves. Honestly.

If you think that's actually three ways of saying the same thing, I think
you may be right :-)

Sidheag
DS Colin Oct 27 2003
Naveed - 19 Jan 2006 08:44 GMT
Angel

Why dont you just stop buying junk alltogether? If its not there then its
less likley that it will be eaten.

Present them with the food and let them decide on if they want to eat it.
If they dont then leave it there and when they get hungry enough they will
eat it.  I dont think he will starve himself.

and relax. if hes happy in himself and healthy then dont worry.
Chris French - 19 Jan 2006 10:36 GMT
>I have 2 sons and both are fussy eaters. The eldest (6 years) is by far the
>worst, all he will eat is hot dogs, wheetos and the usual crisps, biscuits,
>sweets etc...

Ok first thing, if you are still buying in stuff like crisps and
biscuits etc. then  I'd say stop that - if it's not in the house then
they can't eat it and it makes it easier to tell them they can't have
it.

>He was saying "I've
>had enough" which he always says to get out of eating something and then he
>was saying "I don't like it". I asked him why because he liked it last week
>and he just stares at me and says nothing, he made me so angry I just
>flipped and grabbed him and shouted into his face that I was so fed up with
>him not eating stuff but he doesn't give a toss.

Which of course shows to him how much power he has, and this of course
just makes the power struggle worse. You need to stop making a power
struggle, because you can't win it unless you are going to force feed
them.

> This has been building up
>for some time now with him cutting out more and more of the things he will
>eat, all he wants is rubbish. The 4 year old is a bit better, he'll eat fish
>and things like salted popcorn, sunflower seeds, cheese etc... but neither
>of them will try anything new.

I think around this age it's pretty common for kids to get fussy anyway
and not always like to try anything new, but this has got mixed up here
with the food battles going on.

Ok these are my suggestions.

1. I assume that the kids get to eat other stuff such as the above
mentioned  crisps, biscuits etc. to fill themselves up after not eating
their meals? Well first thing is to stop them doing that I'd stick to
regular meal and snack times for now (kids of this age do need in
between meal snacks I think - but it doesn't have to be crap) They don't
get to eat anything else at other times and they only get to eat what
you offer them.

2. remove the battle from meal times, if they don't eat their food then
be calm, about it, remind them that there is nothing else to eat until
whenever. sure if they don't eat they will be hungry for a bit and
complain, but they won't starve, but they will probably have to learn
the hard way..

3. Cook/prepare simple stuff that they are likely to like but that you
are happy with nutritionally (even if they say they don't) - if they
used to eat it they will again. You can hide all sorts of things in
dishes buy whizzing them, in a food processor to put in the sauce

4. Try sitting down together for the meal, all eating the same thing, if
they refuse to eat it, say they don't like it are full etc. then tell
them they have to stay at the table while everyone else finishes.

5. Sit down and make  list of things you can cook for main meals and
prepare for snacks, it makes it easier if you are feeling pressured and
need to get something in a hurry. Have stuff for snacks prepared in
advance if necessary

6. Try to offer some choice, it helps them feel they have some control.
'would you like pasts or shepherds pie for dinner' , offer a choice for
snacks , say peanut butter sandwiches, carrot sticks and bit of apple
but let them choose which they eat.

7. Try to involve the kids and make it fun, sit down together and think
of things they might like to be cooked for dinner,  choose the
vegetables in the shop, get them involved in cooking-  make some pizza
together, or bake some cakes (you don't want to cut out such things
altogether), chop up vegetables (our not yet quite  5yo daughter
prepared all the Brussels sprouts for dinner the other day) - if they
don't do this, then get them a small sharp knife that cuts properly,
show them how to use, and start them on things like mushrooms, carrots
etc. Above DD1 loves working the food processor.

8. Tell the kids what is going to happen and why - that we need to eat a
healthy diet,  about a balanced diet, not eating to much of some things
etc, try to be as positive about it as possible, play some games about
healthy eating etc.

9. Be strong, stay calm,stick to your guns, most likely they will refuse
to eat something  at first, they will make a fuss about being hungry,
about wanting crisps etc., it will be tough on you, but you need to how
them you mean business

good luck :-)
Signature

Chris French

Andy Pandy - 19 Jan 2006 10:53 GMT
> I have 2 sons and both are fussy eaters. The eldest (6 years) is by far the
> worst, all he will eat is hot dogs, wheetos and the usual crisps, biscuits,
> sweets etc... He used to eat chicken nuggets, tomato soup with bread in,
> beans on toast, sausages, burgers although I know this is no good either. It
> just seems to be getting beyond a joke.

<snip>

I agree with the other replies, but just to add that I think the key is that you
should never let them have the junk as an alternative to proper food. Be
consistent about this - ours know that if they don't eat their dinner (or a
reasonable amount of it), there is no way they are getting any pudding, it's a
simple fact. So they don't argue - you don't argue with a brick wall because it
won't do any good.

If you sometimes give in and let them have junk when they've not had a proper
dinner, then they will play up as they know there's a chance they'll get to fill
up on junk instead. Children won't starve themselves, even going without food
for several days won't do them any harm (provided they are drinking), so don't
worry about this. They *will* eat if hungry anyway, even if they don't
particularly like the food.

Also don't worry if he seems to hardly be eating anything - ours went through
phases when they'd eat virtually nothing, and then phases where they would eat a
bigger dinner than me and want more. Provided they are happy, lively and healthy
then don't worry about the quantity of food they are eating, worry more about
the quality.

So, just make them proper meals, let them eat as much or as little as they want,
but NEVER EVER let them have pudding or junk unless they've finished their
dinner (or a decent amount of it), and stop worrying!

--
Andy
Amy - 19 Jan 2006 10:56 GMT
>I have 2 sons and both are fussy eaters. The eldest (6 years) is by far the
> worst, all he will eat is hot dogs, wheetos and the usual crisps,
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
> and mashed potatoes, chicken and potatoes, etc.. I want to cook for them,
> have a family meal but I just don't know what to do, please help.

Have you tried involving them in planning (and even cooking) the meals?  I
have two children aged 9 and 4 and each weekend we create a menu for the
week.  They each have input into what goes on it, and I arrange it to ensure
that the week is reasonably balanced and that time constraints are taken
into account.  Nobody is made to eat meals they really don't like, but new
things have to be tried before being rejected.

I also second what other posters have said - get rid of the junk.  In fact,
it is quite possible that if the children are not eating plateloads of
additives each day that their behaviour will become more reasonable and this
will have a knock-on effect on their eating habits.  That doesn't mean you
have to ban all treats - but have lots of colourful fruit around, make
home-made biscuits with them, whizz up smoothies and bake fruit loaves.

And above all, don't make a big deal of it.  If you can all eat together at
a table as a family then this might make a big difference.  Make mealtimes a
social occasion not a battleground.  If they don't eat, just take it away,
but don't allow them crisps and cakes to make up for it.  Offer yoghurts or
fruit for pudding perhaps, even if they haven't eaten their meal.  As others
have said, they will not starve themselves - gradually they will come round
to this new way of doing things.  Just like those teenagers in the Jamie
Oliver secondary schools!!

Amy
Angel - 19 Jan 2006 12:46 GMT
Thanks to all of you. I know myself I shouldn't be buying the junk. I guess
it's been anything for a quite life and it's just got out of hand. This
weekend I am going to explain to the boys and let them watch me chuck out
all the rubbish and we will sit and work out some menue's for throught the
week. Just another question. I can forsee that I will make chicken curry one
night and I know that my youngest will pick round the curry and just eat the
plain rice and the other will (hopefully) pick only the chicken and not eat
the rice. How can I get round that one? Also saying to my older S that he
can have dessert if he eats all his dinner is like offering chinese torture
to him as he doesn't even eat any puddingy things, should I offer him a
sweet if he eats his dinner or do you think they should go cold turkey?
Should I ban treats all together? I know if I give them a couple of biscuits
each as a snack between meals, they will litterally survive on these, what
should I do?

Thanks for your support in this

Angela
Andy Pandy - 19 Jan 2006 13:26 GMT
> Thanks to all of you. I know myself I shouldn't be buying the junk. I guess
> it's been anything for a quite life and it's just got out of hand. This
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> night and I know that my youngest will pick round the curry and just eat the
> plain rice

Have you tried a different type of curry? Both ours love tikka massala, pasanda
and dhansak, my daughter will eat more spicy ones but my son won't touch them.

> and the other will (hopefully) pick only the chicken and not eat
> the rice. How can I get round that one?

Would he eat bread instead eg a naan or chapati?

> Also saying to my older S that he
> can have dessert if he eats all his dinner is like offering chinese torture
> to him as he doesn't even eat any puddingy things, should I offer him a
> sweet if he eats his dinner or do you think they should go cold turkey?

Not like a bribe, or a reward, or every day, but perhaps as an occasional treat.
It's a difficult one this - I don't think children should be rewarded for
finishing their meals with a pudding/sweet etc, but having these things
sometimes after meals is OK provided they finish their dinner. Doing this
without it looking like a reward/bribe isn't always easy.

> Should I ban treats all together? I know if I give them a couple of biscuits
> each as a snack between meals, they will litterally survive on these, what
> should I do?

I would say don't give them a snack between meals unless they say they're
hungry, and then maybe fruit would be better (not dried). We've banned ours from
anything too sugary between meals anyway - on the advice of our dentist (my
daughter had serious problems with her teeth despite having a reasonably good
diet).

--
Andy
Clare L - 19 Jan 2006 13:44 GMT
>> Thanks to all of you. I know myself I shouldn't be buying the junk. I
>> guess
[quoted text clipped - 48 lines]
> --
> Andy

For snacks, do things that you would serve up at a healthy meal. In our
house, slices of wholemeal bread and yoghurts are on the snack list as well
as fruit and cheese.

Clare
Chris Bacon - 19 Jan 2006 14:07 GMT
> I would say don't give them a snack between meals unless they say they're
> hungry, and then maybe fruit would be better (not dried). We've banned ours from
> anything too sugary between meals anyway - on the advice of our dentist (my
> daughter had serious problems with her teeth despite having a reasonably good
> diet).

I have bought a toothbrush called a "Oral-B 5000 Professional
Care 3d Toothbrush". It comes with a charger to sit it on, like
a cordless 'phone, but smaller, so that it's always full charged.
It is significantly more expensive at £20 (Tesco) than some, but
you can have one brush and different "heads" (distinguishable by
coloured plastic bands that clip onto the bottom of the "head")
for different people. IMO it's a very good toothbrush, by *far*
the best I've had yet, and it whizzes the stuff off the YM's
teeth (using strawberry toothpaste, eurgh, but he likes it)
rapidly, effectively (test using a disclosing tablet), and it's
acceptable to him (he has the old brush to "use", I "finish off"
with the O-B one). After two minutes' use, it says "bzzt bzzt
bzzt", to tell you it's time to stop(!).

If you think "Crikey! £20 for a *toothbrush*!", then so did I -
but it really is good, and does for several people with the
different brush heads (which pull off/push on). I have a piece
of plastic (a Bob the Builder screwdriver bit, actually) that
I put on the thing in place of the brush head when it's not
in use, as the metal drive shaft protudes like a quill.

This Public Service announcement has been bought to you by
someone who hasn't even got any shares in Braun. It's good.
Andy Pandy - 19 Jan 2006 14:28 GMT
> If you think "Crikey! £20 for a *toothbrush*!", then so did I -
> but it really is good, and does for several people with the
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> This Public Service announcement has been bought to you by
> someone who hasn't even got any shares in Braun. It's good.

Snap! Well almost. Ours is a Braun and sounds exactly like yours except it
hasn't got a timer.

We were a bit worried taking it on holiday, as without the brush head it looks
like quite a nasty weapon!

--
Andy
Chris French - 19 Jan 2006 18:22 GMT
>Thanks to all of you. I know myself I shouldn't be buying the junk.

Once you stop buying it you'll be surprised how quickly you get used to
it not being around.

> I guess
>it's been anything for a quite life and it's just got out of hand.

It's the way it happens.

>This
>weekend I am going to explain to the boys and let them watch me chuck out
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>plain rice and the other will (hopefully) pick only the chicken and not eat
>the rice. How can I get round that one?

Well sometimes you have to pick you battles - maybe the focus should be
on getting them to eat some of what you want them too? and say something
like ok, you've eaten all the curry that's good, but I need you to eat
some as well. Or maybe you could offer say  choice of nan bread or rice.

Though in this case I'd just cook the curry and rice together (sort of
like a biryani) and then there is no choice :-)

>Also saying to my older S that he
>can have dessert if he eats all his dinner is like offering chinese torture
>to him as he doesn't even eat any puddingy things,

Well that's good, personally I don't like the 'eat all your dinner to
have pudding thing', but then we don't do puddings as a rule we normally
just have fruit or sometimes yoghurt.

> should I offer him a
>sweet if he eats his dinner or do you think they should go cold turkey?

No, don't go down that route sweets as a reward. I would go there at
all. Leave the choice at eat enough dinner now to keep you going or
spend the next few hours hungry.

>Should I ban treats all together?

No, but they should be treats, not a daily thing or as a reward, but I
wouldn't make  a deal of it to them necessarily. Make some cakes one day
and have them for afternoon snack maybe?

> I know if I give them a couple of biscuits
>each as a snack between meals, they will litterally survive on these, what
>should I do?

Well if you've not bought any then you can't give them biscuits can you
:-) At this stage I would offer mostly 'healthy ' snacks, bits of fruit
(cut up bits can be more appealing to the fussy, cheese, crackers, bread
, pitta brad, hummous, pate, carrot sticks, cucumber slices, avocado,
tomatoes, samosas, olives, little sandwiches etc.

Signature

Chris French

Penny Gaines - 19 Jan 2006 22:17 GMT
> Thanks to all of you. I know myself I shouldn't be buying the junk. I
> guess it's been anything for a quite life and it's just got out of hand.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> just eat the plain rice and the other will (hopefully) pick only the
> chicken and not eat the rice. How can I get round that one? Also saying to

Personally, I'd let the one who only eats the rice, just eat the rice and
the one who just picks out the chicken, just eat the chicken.  Depending
on their mood and temperament, I might ask that they "taste" the other
item on their plate.

> my older S that he can have dessert if he eats all his dinner is like
> offering chinese torture to him as he doesn't even eat any puddingy
> things, should I offer him a sweet if he eats his dinner or do you think
> they should go cold turkey? Should I ban treats all together? I know if I

In our house, you get pudding after people have eaten the main course,
regardless of how much you have eaten.  

Signature

Penny Gaines
UK mum to three

mogga - 20 Jan 2006 14:56 GMT
>> Thanks to all of you. I know myself I shouldn't be buying the junk. I
>> guess it's been anything for a quite life and it's just got out of hand.
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>In our house, you get pudding after people have eaten the main course,
>regardless of how much you have eaten.  

I've read the Paul McKenna book recently about getting rid of all the
hang ups learnt as kids about clearing your plate so I *do* like your
idea.

I was an incredibly fussy eater as a child and wouldn't eat any other
veg other than carrots and potatoes[1]. I really didn't like being
forced to eat cabbage at school or my mother's attempts to disguise
parsnips as potatoes in stew.
I would however eat chocolate and biscuits in any shape or form.

[1] Oh and beetroot.

My son (now 10) would eat all sorts of veggies as a toddler and didn't
eat chocolate very often at all and still doesn't drunk cola very
often (maybe 3 times a year)

Signature

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Amy - 20 Jan 2006 16:50 GMT
>>In our house, you get pudding after people have eaten the main course,
>>regardless of how much you have eaten.
>
> I've read the Paul McKenna book recently about getting rid of all the
> hang ups learnt as kids about clearing your plate so I *do* like your
> idea.

As a child we got the "sit there until you eat it" philosophy of eating, or
even had it reheated for our next meal sometimes.  It never worked - we
never ate the offending meal.  I don't make my children eat all their
dinner, and pudding is never banned (although it is usually just yoghurt and
fruit).  But they do eat extremely well, particularly my 4yo son, and we
plan the meals together so they know what they are getting and are offered
meals they have chosen and enjoy.
Amy
Angel - 20 Jan 2006 16:59 GMT
I am having a really hard time as I write this. I have made mashed potatoes,
puff pastry and really nice beef stew and gravy (no veg, I didn't want to
push my luck). I laid out the table for the four of us and the 2 kids
wouldn't even sit down with us, they are digging their heels in to some
extent. I came on here for support. This is going to be a hard battle, what
should I do, just let it sit there till they are ready to eat it? I know
they are hungry as I've not given them anything since lunchtime. HELP

I understand what the previous posters are saying and my mum forced me to
eat stuff, that is why I vowed I would never make my kids eat anything, in
retrospect maybe that's where I have went wrong. I wouldn't mind them not
eating their dinner every day I just want them to eat a decent meal. If they
tried a few things I would be able to know what they like and make them that
but I'm at a dead end.
Clare L - 20 Jan 2006 17:28 GMT
>I am having a really hard time as I write this. I have made mashed
>potatoes,
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> that
> but I'm at a dead end.

The battle is about control. It's being played out at the table.

Here are the rules.

You make a nice simple meal. You serve it. You tell them the meal is ready
and it is time to eat.
If they don't come to the table you repeat the instruction. You are calm and
controlled.
If they still don't come and eat you say that meal time is from time x to
time y and that at time y the food will be removed and you will move on to
bath time etc.
Repeat every five minutes.
Stay calm. Eat your meal, converse pleasantly with partner. You are having a
nice time and they are missing out. If they wish to talk to you, they can
come and sit at the table. If they sit, don't niggle them to eat, just point
out it is there if they want it.
If you get to 10 minutes left and they still haven't joined you, you remind
them that meal time will soon be over and when it is the food will go in the
bin.

When meal time is up, clear the table and move on.

I've only once had to put a whole plate of food in the bin for each child.
Once it had been done once, they knew I meant business. It's been an
"option" i have reminded them off but never repeated.

And it is tough, I know. But it doesn't take long. But I would stick to easy
meals like pasta so if it does go in the bin you don't feel like you have
wasted a lot of time.

You just serve up good food and they either eat or go hungry. Keep all
snacks as healthy ones and soon they will realise that they are getting know
where. Remember if they don't eat lunch one day but are hungry mid afternoon
then you can just make a sandwich for them. I think that bananas make great
snacks.

Hope this helps

Clare
Sidheag McCormack - 20 Jan 2006 17:36 GMT
> I am having a really hard time as I write this. I have made mashed
> potatoes, puff pastry and really nice beef stew and gravy (no veg, I
> didn't want to push my luck).

But surely *you* want to eat vegetables? I think this is part of the key,
actually - cook the food you want to eat, and offer it to the children.
Don't cook "for" them.

> I laid out the table for the four of us
> and the 2 kids wouldn't even sit down with us, they are digging their
> heels in to some extent. I came on here for support. This is going to be
> a hard battle, what should I do, just let it sit there till they are
> ready to eat it?

No. I'd say, leave their plates (with or without food on them, depending on
what your serving practices are) on the table, until you (and your DH? I
think there were 2 children, right, so he must be the fourth?) have
finished eating. Then clear the table, just as you would have done if
they'd been there and eaten. If the kids didn't eat, they didn't eat. Don't
make any comment, just do it.

If the kids say they're hungry later, then I think what I'd do is to offer
a choice of either the meal they could have eaten at the proper time,
microwaved, or else something with calories but very boring, e.g., plain
wholemeal bread and water. Plain wholemeal bread is actually rich in many
nutrients; most people's diets would be improved by replacing several meals
each week with just that, so don't worry if they fairly often *do* eat just
bread. Try to make sure that whatever you do offer as an alternative is
reasonably boring, reasonably nutritious, and *very* easy to prepare,
preferably being something that both kids can get entirely by themselves.
Point being, you don't go to the trouble of making a nice meal and then go
to more trouble later.

> I understand what the previous posters are saying and my mum forced me
> to eat stuff, that is why I vowed I would never make my kids eat
> anything, in retrospect maybe that's where I have went wrong. I wouldn't
> mind them not eating their dinner every day I just want them to eat a
> decent meal. If they tried a few things I would be able to know what
> they like and make them that but I'm at a dead end.

I say again, it's become a battle, and you're losing - *back off*. You
can't go forwards until you establish that you aren't going to make them
eat. IMHO.

Sidheag
DS Colin Oct 27 2003
Phil Armstrong - 20 Jan 2006 17:58 GMT
> I am having a really hard time as I write this. I have made mashed potatoes,
> puff pastry and really nice beef stew and gravy (no veg, I didn't want to
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> tried a few things I would be able to know what they like and make them that
> but I'm at a dead end.

It's going to be hard; there's no way round that.

You've got to remember that right now, your kids don't believe that if
they don't eat their dinner they won't get to fill up on snacks later
in the evening. They believe that because you've caved in in the past,
that you'll do so again.

It will probably take a number of mealtimes where they eat nothing and
then go hungry before they start to get the message that things have
changed. So *you* have to really believe that they have changed & to
follow through for it to work.

Part of that means knowing that your kids will be testing the new
boundaries to see exactly where they are because that's what kids do:
they test the boundaries. So you've got to be both firm & consistent
in where those boundaries are.

Have you watched any of the Little Angels programs? There's a couple
of those which help parents who have kids with eating issues that you
mind find helpful to watch, if only for ideas on different ways to
approach the issue.

Be strong!

Phil

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Andy Pandy - 20 Jan 2006 18:08 GMT
> I am having a really hard time as I write this. I have made mashed potatoes,
> puff pastry and really nice beef stew and gravy (no veg, I didn't want to
> push my luck). I laid out the table for the four of us and the 2 kids
> wouldn't even sit down with us, they are digging their heels in to some
> extent. I came on here for support. This is going to be a hard battle, what
> should I do, just let it sit there till they are ready to eat it?

Yes.

> I know
> they are hungry as I've not given them anything since lunchtime. HELP

If they are hungry they will eat. Honest - they won't starve to death. It
doesn't do kids any harm to go hungry for a day or even two.

Make it clear there is no alternative - their dinner or be hungry. Don't try to
force them to eat, it won't work. Don't let them see that you are wound up by
this.

> I understand what the previous posters are saying and my mum forced me to
> eat stuff, that is why I vowed I would never make my kids eat anything, in
> retrospect maybe that's where I have went wrong. I wouldn't mind them not
> eating their dinner every day I just want them to eat a decent meal. If they
> tried a few things I would be able to know what they like and make them that
> but I'm at a dead end.

They will hold out if they know they'll get junk as an alternative. Make it
clear they won't. It won't take long for the message to get through....

--
Andy
Angel - 21 Jan 2006 10:40 GMT
Well, I stuck to my guns last night and it was not easy, both kids were
screaming saying they were starving but refusing point blank to even try it.
This went on from 5pm till 8pm and then a miracle happened. The eldest said
he would try just the steak but not the potatoes or pastry so i agreed and
he loved it! That is the first time he has ever eat steak in his life, he
even asked for 2 more plates full! I felt like crying, I was so happy. Now
he will hopefully beleive me when I say other foods are nice too. The
youngest stuck his heels in all night but at least when dinner time comes
tonight he will know I am serious so we'll see how it goes. I am going to
make chicken curry tonight and I"ve got my fingers crossed. Thanks for your
support everyone.
Alison Tooth - 21 Jan 2006 22:42 GMT
> Well, I stuck to my guns last night and it was not easy, both kids were
> screaming saying they were starving but refusing point blank to even try it.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> make chicken curry tonight and I"ve got my fingers crossed. Thanks for your
> support everyone.

Oh, that's fantastic Angel :)
Hope it all goes as smoothly as that! (But if not, don't worry, it
sounds like you'll get there in the end.)

Alison
Chris French - 21 Jan 2006 23:15 GMT
>Well, I stuck to my guns last night and it was not easy, both kids were
>screaming saying they were starving but refusing point blank to even try it.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>make chicken curry tonight and I"ve got my fingers crossed. Thanks for your
>support everyone.

Are excellent, and well done for sticking to your guns, it can be really
hard to do that with two kids haranguing you.

so has the younger one cracked tonight as well :-)?
Signature

Chris French

Angel - 22 Jan 2006 13:14 GMT
Well last night we had chicken tikka, rice and cauury sauce. The youngest
eat the chicken and rice but didn't want the sauce so i was very happy with
that. the older one wouldn't touch it, well he did take a small bite of the
chicken and spat it out. I wsn't happy about it but he never gave in. So at
least I have one who will eat steak and the other who will eat chicken and
rice so not too bad a result. Just wish there was something that we could
all eat and enjoy. I don't know what I am going to make tonight, pasta maybe
so we'll see how that goes, I am not hopeful.

Angel
Amy - 22 Jan 2006 13:37 GMT
Just wish there was something that we could
> all eat and enjoy. I don't know what I am going to make tonight, pasta
> maybe
> so we'll see how that goes, I am not hopeful.

Keep persevering, trying a wide variety of meals, and I am sure that in a
few weeks' time you will all be eating and enjoying the same meals.  It
sounds like you have made huge progress in just a couple of days - think
what you can do in a month!

Amy
Andy Pandy - 22 Jan 2006 14:54 GMT
>  Just wish there was something that we could
> > all eat and enjoy. I don't know what I am going to make tonight, pasta
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> sounds like you have made huge progress in just a couple of days - think
> what you can do in a month!

Yup - kids accept change much quicker than adults - I bet in a couple of weeks
you'll be wondering what all the fuss was about!

--
Andy
Penny Gaines - 22 Jan 2006 20:16 GMT
> Well last night we had chicken tikka, rice and cauury sauce. The youngest
> eat the chicken and rice but didn't want the sauce so i was very happy
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> that we could all eat and enjoy. I don't know what I am going to make
> tonight, pasta maybe so we'll see how that goes, I am not hopeful.

It looks like your plan is going well, and they are willing to try more
food.

I'd concentrate on making meals a pleasant experience for everyone - it
is much harder to eat when you are feeling stressed.  In particular,
children will find it easier to try things when they know they can just
have a minute bite, and won't be expected to eat the whole helping.

As for cooking veg etc - I find that the wider the variey at the table,
the more they will eat.  For instance, maybe the next time you cook
chicken tikka, maybe you could have some poppadums as well (or mango
chutey, or raita or naan bread or...), and maybe the elder will eat
just the poppadums.

Good luck, and I hope it continues to go well.

Signature

Penny Gaines
UK mum to three

mogga - 23 Jan 2006 21:19 GMT
>Well last night we had chicken tikka, rice and cauury sauce. The youngest
>eat the chicken and rice but didn't want the sauce so i was very happy with
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>Angel

One thing I'd add in at this point is when I didn't eat the meal when
I was a kid I knew there'd be other things I could eat.
I suspect not having other stuff that they could snack on might take
away some of the alternatives for them too so they don't see things
they'd rather have instead.

Signature

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Tweetie Pooh - 27 Jan 2006 22:59 GMT
"Angel" <angel.choc@virgin.net> wrote in news:KyLAf.107671$7p5.92869
@newsfe4-win.ntli.net:

> I don't know what I am going to make tonight, pasta maybe
> so we'll see how that goes, I am not hopeful.

Here's a tip I use making a ragu for pasta.

Put a couple of carrots in blender and blast till fine.  Then add onions
and garlic and blast till fine.  By this time the carrot is very fine.
Now brown off veg in oil, add meat and brown, add wine and reduce, add
tomatoes and other flavouring (lemon zest is nice, olives etc), season with
salt and pepper and a little nutmeg.
When cooked stir in whipping cream and serve on nice long spaghetti.

Adapt as needed but I use 2 carrot, 2 onions, lots of garlic, 750g mince
(ideally 250g each of beef, pork and veal but all beef or even turkey mince
is OK). 250 ml wine, 2 cans tomatoes, tomato puree to taste, 1/4 tsp
nutmeg, 150 ml cream.

You only need a little sauce so this quantity will easily feed 6 adults
with ragu to spare.

Whats more the carrot is hidden but all there :)
nut - 24 Jan 2006 03:17 GMT
> I am having a really hard time as I write this. I have made mashed
> potatoes, puff pastry and really nice beef stew and gravy (no veg, I
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> to eat a decent meal. If they tried a few things I would be able to
> know what they like and make them that but I'm at a dead end.

Seriously... starve them.

Never make your kids eat... that's a horrible thing to do... instead, do the
opposite.

Give them nothing between breakfast and supper... and watch them whoff the
supper down.

And don't feel bad if they don't eat - so long as you put a good meal on the
table once a day for them your job's done... it's up to them if they eat it
or not... just be strong and don't let them have biscuits/crisps/toast/WHY
after... *unless* they make a good go at clearing the plate.
nut - 24 Jan 2006 03:56 GMT
One more thing Angel...

I was never force-fed as a kid... if i didn't eat, c'est la vie.

I had cool parents.

I have two kids off different mums... i was a single father when i got
together with my youngest's mum.

Often i sat there and watched the youngest's mum force-feed my eldest and
never really knew what to do about it... he'd gag on food, and sometimes was
sick... but, at the time, i really didn't know how to handle the situation.

I do now... as a single father of two, aged 13 and 9, i've got it sussed...

*never* force feed kids... instead, offer the plate up for 5 minutes - after
that the dinner goes in the bin and they get their pyjamas on... no
biscuits, no milk, no f.ck all... don't send them to bed, but let them know
that there's gonna be no more meals.

i think it's a lot fairer to let em go hungry than to make them gag on their
food.

please tell me if you think im wrong... but i know i'm not.

also... it's really not that bad to do different meals for kids... my
youngest loves eggs... so a couple of scotch pancakes or toast with marmite
and scrambled egg and he's a happy fella... my eldest prefers pasta... and
i'll eat a bit of pasta with him... so it doesn't really take me that much
extra time to keep both kids happy... and sometimes they'll both have eggs,
sometimes both pasta.

Who said family meals are that important anyway? They're completely wrong...
family *time* is important, not the bloody meals... a sit down together meal
once a week is cool, but there's no real need to do it every day if the kids
like different things... stagger it... feed one, then the other, then
yourself and your partner.

i think the point is... you stand to do more damage if you try too hard...
try less and it all comes together.

kids eat when they're hungry... i've proved this with my youngest who has
screamed the house down cos i did poached instead of scrambled or vice
versa... i've thrown it in the bin, he's gone to bed crying and then whoffed
his breakfast down.

now he doesn't argue anymore... i always try to give him a (limited) choice
of food, but he knows better than to miss his meal.

hope that helps and i dont come across as being too grumpy - my kids
certainly dont think i am!
Chris Bacon - 24 Jan 2006 11:34 GMT
> Seriously... starve them.
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Give them nothing between breakfast and supper... and watch them whoff the
> supper down.

I'm not sure at all that I can agree with force-feeding,
which you appear to equate to forcibly ramming food down
their necks, *or* to the opposite. Both actions seem to
me to be extreme, and reprehensible.
nut - 24 Jan 2006 13:32 GMT
>> Seriously... starve them.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> their necks, *or* to the opposite. Both actions seem to
> me to be extreme, and reprehensible.

What's the opposite to force feeding Chris? Not-force-feeding?

Like i said, so long as you put the meal in front of the kid each day, your
job is done.
nut - 24 Jan 2006 13:49 GMT
>>> Seriously... starve them.
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>> their necks, *or* to the opposite. Both actions seem to
>> me to be extreme, and reprehensible.

Sorry, i'm replying twice to this one...

Force feeding - in my experiece - is insisting the kid eats the food before
they're allowed to leave the table... with usually a bit of shouting and
cursing added in for good measure. My youngest's mother used to regularly do
it to my eldest much to my distaste but she assured me she was doing the
Right Thing... i realise now it was quite the opposite. I'm still not sure
whether she was being malicious or just frustrated.

As you say, it's reprehensible... and i won't allow it to happen again.

I'm not suggesting we make the kids go without, only that - if they're not
eating their evening meals - take away any afternoon snacks. If that doesn't
work, drop the amount of food at lunch and, if that doesn't work, throw the
evening meal in the bin and make the kid wait till breakfast.

My kids have never "starved" - but they have often seen their food thrown
away and spent the night moaning they was hungry... but they're still here
now and tend to eat more than they ever did when She was shouting at them to
eat.

My main problem now is computers and hand-held consoles... i insist that
they're turned off for the duration of the meal - i usually stick the telly
on (or an old episode of Simpsons/Mr Bean/Fawlty Towers/Stargate) while kids
are eating - and don't allow gadgets to be turned back on until everyones
finished meal, drink & desert.
hicks@bigmailbox.net - 30 Jan 2006 16:31 GMT
> >>> Seriously... starve them.
> >>>
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> now and tend to eat more than they ever did when She was shouting at them to
> eat.

I sometimes wish my other half would be a bit less paranoid about DD
not eating. There's no shouting or cursing, but she does tend to get a
little worked up when we're having a difficult meal time. DD is
obviously well nourished, and missing out on the odd meal which she
clearly doesn't want to eat wouldn't harm her. Although I suspect that
throwing the food in the bin wouldn't go down well at all.
nut - 30 Jan 2006 19:10 GMT
>> My kids have never "starved" - but they have often seen their food
>> thrown away and spent the night moaning they was hungry... but
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> clearly doesn't want to eat wouldn't harm her. Although I suspect that
> throwing the food in the bin wouldn't go down well at all.

It's not just the worry of whether the child is eating enough... it's also
the frustration that you've taken the time to cook the meal only to see it
go to waste and not be appreciated.
 
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