Stupid or dyslexic ... really, which is worse?
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Jo Ling - 17 Jul 2006 22:51 GMT Our daughter (aged 12) has performed very poorly in her Year 7 exams. We've had a word with the school, who claim they have tested her for dyslexia and found that she isn't ... but they point out that some pupils are not dyslexic, just "academically weak" (ie. stupid).
Which is worse, then, being stupid or being dyslexic? And how (risking the flames here) does one draw the distinction? Is it worth persevering with her education if she is, ahem, "academically weak", or do we just send her to the local sink school, which is easier to get to, than the one with the impressive record, that she's at at the moment?
Eric Baber - 18 Jul 2006 09:38 GMT > Our daughter (aged 12) has performed very poorly in her Year 7 exams. > We've had a word with the school, who claim they have tested her for > dyslexia and found that she isn't ... but they point out that some pupils > are not dyslexic, just "academically weak" (ie. stupid). > > Which is worse, then, being stupid or being dyslexic? Do you think you may be being a bit harsh here? For a start there's nothing wrong with being dyslexic - there are many jobs in life which require little or no reading and writing which are very fulfilling, so even if your daughter was dyslexic, that needn't be a hindrance in her life. (And in addition there are lots of people who cope very well in paper-based jobs with dyslexia - look at Richard Branson for one; he doesn't seem to have let his dyslexia get in the way of achieving some pretty impressive things).
Secondly I wouldn't say that being "academically weak" is the same as being stupid. Someone who is academically weak may not be great at maths, or science, or literature, but may be outstanding at something else - something less academic. I wouldn't call that stupid, just better at something else.
> And how (risking the flames here) does one draw the distinction? Not really possible since you're comparing apples with pears. "Dyslexic" and "stupid" are not two ends on a gradient. Dyslexia is a condition which can be assessed, diagnosed and lived with, in that the person with dyslexia can learn coping mechanisms, meaning they can live a perfectly fulfilling life. "Stupid" is a personal value judgement which, in my opinion, isn't particularly useful or helpful.
> Is it worth persevering with her education if she is, ahem, "academically > weak", or do we just send her to the local sink school, which is easier to > get to, than the one with the impressive record, that she's at at the > moment? How does your daughter feel at the school? Is she happy there? Personally, I think I would do the following:
a) Leave my child in the better school if she's happy there and the teachers are supportive. b) Find out what my child was really good and and enjoyed, and encourage her to do more of that after school either through lessons, clubs, or whatever. What is she good at? Dancing? Running? Playing an instrument? Woodwork? Most people are good at something - some are more academically-minded, other more physically inclined. See if you can find what she's really good at and try to give her an opportunity to develop that.
Your question reminded me of a really good 15-minute video I saw online the other day - http://www.ted.com/tedtalks/tedtalksplayer.cfm?key=ken_robinson&flashEnabled=1 (if that link doesn't work for you try http://tinyurl.com/hfef8 ). In that talk Ken Robinson talks about this sort of thing - how easy it is nowadays to put labels on kids and stifle them in the process. Have a look, it's very entertaining and also thought-provoking.
Eric
hicks@bigmailbox.net - 18 Jul 2006 10:56 GMT > Our daughter (aged 12) has performed very poorly in her Year 7 exams. We've > had a word with the school, who claim they have tested her for dyslexia and [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > to the local sink school, which is easier to get to, than the one with the > impressive record, that she's at at the moment? There may be more pressure on her at the school with the better record. If she's not academically inclined then she might get disillusioned. But I agree with Eric's comments, ask your daughter what she is happiest with. Find out what she's good at or interested in, and support her in whatever she chooses to pursue. Things can change though. I recall my early days at school, I had no interest in science and found maths difficult. But in my teenage years I developed a keen interest in computer programming and now work in the IT industry. So I would say give your daughter every chance to discover her real interests and skills.
Lorenzo - 18 Jul 2006 14:44 GMT I was probably "academically weak" at about that age. If there had been exams at that time, I am in no doubt I would have been failing them too. In fact I was just lazy (and fairly slow at everything). I would fall behind easily and lose the place in classes. My writing was virtually unreadable and took me forever. Not very good for passing exams.
I still am lazy and I am still slow - although now I call it being meticulous. At secondary school I pulled out the stops for the important stage. Then I made it through law school with minimal work and I am now at the top of my profession. (And I still find plenty time for being lazy!)
The truth is, 12 is way to early to give up on someone. Exams do not count for much at that age. Have faith and give gentle encouragement. My parents never thought there was any problem with me and it never crossed my mind that I would not go to university etc.
The boy who won the "dux" medal (for most gifted pupil in the primary school - age 11) got no formal qualifications and works in his dad's garage.
> Our daughter (aged 12) has performed very poorly in her Year 7 exams. > We've had a word with the school, who claim they have tested her for [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > send her to the local sink school, which is easier to get to, than the one > with the impressive record, that she's at at the moment? Jo Ling - 19 Jul 2006 20:13 GMT >I was probably "academically weak" at about that age. If there had been >exams at that time, I am in no doubt I would have been failing them too. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > school - age 11) got no formal qualifications and works in his dad's > garage. Ho ho! I like that! I was pretty miffed at my old secondary school that they scrapped the "dux" and whatever the female equivalent was, before I got a chance to win it! Meanwhile all the sporty types got patted publicly on the back. And at my daughter's school, she managed to win a Year 8 swimming race (she's Year 7, and she went in to make up the numbers), but that didn't rate a mention in dispatches. Ho hum.
Thanks for all your wise comments, folks. :) I will look up that link, "hicks".
mogga - 20 Jul 2006 09:08 GMT >Ho ho! I like that! I was pretty miffed at my old secondary school that >they scrapped the "dux" and whatever the female equivalent was, before I got [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Thanks for all your wise comments, folks. :) I will look up that link, >"hicks". As others have said you need to find out what she likes - where her interests lie etc. Its hard for kids sometimes - I had no clue what I wanted to do whilst I was at school or uni... or even now I'm fairly undecided. She could perhaps try some alternative learning techniques - get a Tony Buzan "use your head" book perhaps ? That made a big impact on how I learnt at school and independently too.
If you got hold of a prospectus for a uni which listed all the amazing subjects you can do a degree in this might bring up some ideas (Or a college prospectus for a local place) - it might inspire or give her some direction.
Distractions at school can make learning hard which will hamper her too. Some people just don't learn well in groups - and some teachers are brilliant and some aren't.
Two out of the top 3 girls in my class/year exam results wise didn't even do A levels...
If she's really not interested in school though find some things outside of school which she can at least enjoy!
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hicks@bigmailbox.net - 20 Jul 2006 10:28 GMT > Distractions at school can make learning hard which will hamper her > too. Some people just don't learn well in groups Totally agree. I regard this as a good justification for home education. I know this probably will not be an option for the OP, and it depends on personality traits to a large extent, but some people are more inclined to study under their own steam, rather than be in a 'spoon fed' classroom situation. I know I would have loved to do HE as a kid since I'm not comfortable in group situations, socially or otherwise. Also some find it very difficult to be motivated towards subjects in which they have no interest.
Welches - 20 Jul 2006 19:26 GMT >> Distractions at school can make learning hard which will hamper her >> too. Some people just don't learn well in groups [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > more inclined to study under their own steam, rather than be in a > 'spoon fed' classroom situation. I know I would have loved to do HE as
> a kid since I'm not comfortable in group situations, socially or > otherwise. Also some find it very difficult to be motivated towards > subjects in which they have no interest. You know, I've always felt that those 2 things would have made me a bad candidate for homeschooling. If I hadn't had to socialise at school, then I'd probably never have mixed with others and if I'd been in social settings elsewhere, not being used to being with others would have made me more awkward than I felt already. As for not being motivated towards certain unintresting subjects, I would have done maths, more maths and some more maths, and maybe occasional bits of physics-the maths parts, out of choice. I might have done maths A-level at 12yo, but I wouldn't have done some of the things that have subsequently been useful to me. The fact I had to do other subjects-particularly languages, and was competitive enough to make sure I didn't make a complete fool of myself made me widen my subjects. Debbie
Jo Ling - 20 Jul 2006 22:30 GMT with others would have made me more
> awkward than I felt already. > As for not being motivated towards certain unintresting subjects, I would > have done maths, more maths and some more maths, and maybe occasional bits > of physics-the maths parts, out of choice.> Interesting. I've always viewed physics as applied maths, and I'm a mathematician (leaning towards the "pure" part, myself - never quite got to grips with Fourier transforms.)
Welches - 20 Jul 2006 22:55 GMT > with others would have made me more >> awkward than I felt already. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > mathematician (leaning towards the "pure" part, myself - never quite got > to grips with Fourier transforms.) Oh no. Fourier transforms are lovely. Pure is just waffle by degree level. Maths modelling is beautiful, particularly Navier-Stokes (however you spell it) and wave equations.... Debbie
Jo Ling - 20 Jul 2006 23:02 GMT >> with others would have made me more >>> awkward than I felt already. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > spell it) and wave equations.... > Debbie Wave equations? Pah. Give me a good dirichlet boundary condition any day.
jenn' skates - 21 Jul 2006 19:28 GMT >You know, I've always felt that those 2 things would have made me a bad >candidate for homeschooling. If I hadn't had to socialise at school, then >I'd probably never have mixed with others and if I'd been in social settings >elsewhere, not being used to being with others would have made me more >awkward than I felt already. That's where we parents come into it - by supporting the kids and finding levels that they are comfortable with, but also ensuring that they are equipped to cope well and be happy in 'the outside world' so to speak. My eldest was very shy at first, he didn't like the idea of meeting people he didn't know, so we started slowly, gradually easing him into more social situations at a pace he was OK with, now at 7 1/2 he is happy to give things a go, because he knows I'll listen to his views and we won't go again unless either he wants to, I think we should, or we need to.
>As for not being motivated towards certain unintresting subjects, I would >have done maths, more maths and some more maths, and maybe occasional bits >of physics-the maths parts, out of choice. I might have done maths A-level >at 12yo, but I wouldn't have done some of the things that have subsequently >been useful to me. Again though, either parents step in and ensure that 'the basics' of each subject are covered, or you would have learned these things as and when you actually had a use for them. There is a theory (not had the need to test it myself) that if you need to know something, either to do something else more complex or simply for it's own sake, then you learn it much more easily because you gain the information and begin to use it immediately, rather than learning it but not using it (if you see what I mean?)
>The fact I had to do other subjects-particularly >languages, and was competitive enough to make sure I didn't make a complete >fool of myself made me widen my subjects. >Debbie I think you would be surprised at just how broad most kids interest is in things around them - and how intensely they can learn about things that grab their interest and attention. We are certainly covering far more, in much more depth, than I would have anticipated - very definitely more than the National Curriculum calls for - but by simply 'rolling with it' I'm finding things work very well. I tend to have a bit of a wobble about the whole idea of HE every so often (generally co-incides with an ear bashing from my mother ;( and so look at what L would be up to at school at his age, and am surprised at the differences sometimes. Quite often we have 'covered' comparable topics (i.e. Romans or Ancient Greece) but to a much more detailed degree. All told interest lead learning is a lot easier on us HE parents than following a curriculum (or at least in my humble opinion).
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Zoinks - 31 Jul 2006 10:04 GMT > I was probably "academically weak" at about that age. If there had been > exams at that time, I am in no doubt I would have been failing them too. In [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >>send her to the local sink school, which is easier to get to, than the one >>with the impressive record, that she's at at the moment? Don't panic, it's all nonesense.
Labelling kids is just something that lazy schools do. If you have lazy teachers then it's easier for them to teach obviously clever pupils - so they try to discourage children who need a bit of work. I was on the sharp end of that, same as many of my peers.
I have a school report (age 11) which says "Z. must realise that he will *never* be as bright as X and Y". Gee thanks. X is now a welder, Y works in a garage. Oh, and I have a PhD. My peak probably came when I was in my mid 20s and started to enjoy my education. The school's (inappropriate and incorrect) assertion meant nothing to me and served only to worry my parents.
Why not explain to the school that their teaching is at fault ?
Maybe you should stop thinking about what the school says and ask your daughter what she wants to do.
Z.
hicks@bigmailbox.net - 31 Jul 2006 10:44 GMT > Don't panic, it's all nonesense. > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > The school's (inappropriate and incorrect) assertion meant nothing to me > and served only to worry my parents. Those teachers needed taking into a room and given a good slapping. What a demoralising thing to say to a child. BTW I wouldn't discount non academic options like electrical/plumbing and other trades. Judging by my recent attempts to locate good reliable people to do some building work for me, there is a very nice living to be made if you have the right skills.
Jo Ling - 31 Jul 2006 19:37 GMT >> I was probably "academically weak" at about that age. If there had been >> exams at that time, I am in no doubt I would have been failing them too. [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > Oh, and I have a PhD. My peak probably came when I was in my mid 20s and > started to enjoy my education.
:-) I like it! And well done!
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