Re: the real drug epidemic

No.

No you don't.

And I did not say, nor did you ask, if I wrote congress on Ritalin. You
simple asked, about four posts after you brought up Ritalin, if I had
written. The subject had been dropped.

You don't know what I wrote about. Nor how many times. Nor how many
other government agencies I've contacted over the years on different
issues of political importance. Or social importance.

I've worked in three areas of social issues, all overlapping. Child
protection (You recall my student work study...I did an field study and
submitted it to congress as part of their work on a bill), child and
family mental health, and a third that's none of your business.

<blush> No, just a responsible citizen.

I'd like to think I made a difference.

And you?

You wish to sue the state of Iowa.

0:->

Greg wrote

Kane ^7&* wrote

Please post a link!
I gotta see this great diatribe against Ritalen abuse!

Kane the magnificent!

No.

I don't belong, nor attend. My children are grown. The local schools all
know me though.

Yes.

When you spoke out, was in anonymous?
Or did you identify yourself at the local PTA?
Did you write Congressional Ways and Means?

Far louder and more to the right people than you, pissant. (By the way,
it's "Ritalin." And usually one doesn't need to shout it. What emphasis
were you attempting to make?

Possibly if you wanted to do a better insinuation you should have
emphasized "DID YOU EVER SPEAK OUT."

You don't remember my posting about being a speaker to a group that
included both teachers and pediatric nurses, where I accused teachers of
prescribing drugs for students? (I made the point that by refusing to
teach children with "behavioral problems" until medicated they were
forcing the education system to put pressure on parents and doctors).

You have the most "convenient" memory. Others, myself included, might
forget one or two things about a long ago post, but you seem to forget
hundreds of long ago posts themselves. Weird.

We had a rather hot debate, and at the end one could see AND HEAR both
side (both in denial AT FIRST) starting to give this careful consideration.

The nurses were seeing, mostly, very disturbed children, the rare ones
that DO indeed benefit from drug therapy, while the teachers were asking
about ways they could better understand what was a psychiatric problem,
and what was a true learning disability....or other situational problem.
The former calls for meds, the latter less often.

You are trying to lie about me and harass me again, Greg. Don't you ever
get tired of being proven wrong?

It's difficult to compare. But I'll assign you that job. I personally
consider both to be epidemic, and do not recall every saying anything
that would lead a reader to believe that I approved of or minimized
drugging children unnecessarily. You have posts of mine that say
otherwise, do you?

This post best expresses my thoughts on the drugging of children. And
remember I worked with children that I fought against the drugging of in
mental health settings, uncovered allergic reactions to foods that were
effecting behavior, and argued with people that could fire me (they
didn't because they learned I was right...I made sure of that before
mounting the argument, just like here, scummy dummy)

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.parenting.spanking/browse_thread/thread/9ccb3
6337046c59f/ff10d14098de8f63?q=Kane+drugging+&rnum=5#ff10d14098de8f63
http://tinyurl.com/mlrdb

In this I cite a long article on scientific work with brain scanning,
and say about the researcher: "<<in addition...and a reason I tend to
trust Dr. Teicher, my being very anti drugging of kids>> "

Just for the hell of it, Greg, try ONE time answering a valid question
from me. Try this one:

If you think deliberate drugging of children with psychotropics, (some
AMPHETAMINE DERIVED) is epidemic, how is it you seem to be against
naming meth as an epidemic, as children are doped in Utero by their
mother's use of meth?

Some states? Could you be more specific? I am currently looking for
model legislation and I've found nothing worth bothering with.

And the children are still be psychotropicly drugged. My wife is working
with the "special needs" population and she sees too much of it, or
wrongly applied instances, and even, occasionally a child that obviously
has a medical condition that needs to be evaluated for cause and
medication used if indicated.

That's right. See above.

While I have a tendency to post with a lot of subjects in the air for
consideration at once, I cannot cover them ALL at any one time. My NOT
bringing up Ritalin at this time has nothing to do with the reality of
the meth epidemic. It neither detracts nor adds to the issue.

But it does allow you to continually dodge answering my challenges to
you to PROVE there is no meth epidemic.

Or that it's being lied about to raise money.

Why would you pull a Douggie, and switch to, "yes but look at this OTHER
problem?"

Your counter challenge to my "meth epidemic" would look FAR BETTER if
you could come up with some figures. At least Doug did that...only to
discover that what I said was a "prediction" and NOT currently, at the
time of our exchange, known by release of new data and information YET.

And he is finding out the hard way I had done my homework, the figures
are coming out. The problem has moved the Feds finally to start taking
action. The health field is swamped. The mental health field is swamped.

All just as I said.

Now IF Ritalin is a problem of equal or greater proportions, make your
argument with two things. The facts that prove it, and the possible
remedies.

Mine, for meth, is to fund the increasing education of the public. To
tighten (as has happened, I'm happy to say) the laws regarding exposing
children to all the sorry circumstances about and around meth, and to
protect the children from the greatly heightened dangers meth addiction
poses to them.

You will see, as time passes, that the old 10% of CPS cases are sexual
abuse, change as new data is tabulated and analyzed.

Sexual abuse of children in settings where meth is present is very high,
as workers, CARES personnel, and police have told me. Meth is a
temporary aphrodisiac and children present are often molested as a result.

More than I consider acceptable, but much of the pressure for it's use
comes from EDUCATION, not from child protection.

I do not know the percentage. Do you?

I have seen what I consider, due to the unreliable sources, claims of
very high percentages, but when pressed they cannot find data except
from their daisy chain, others like them that keep passing the
information one to the other until it's assumed, because of volume, that
it has to be true.

The big lie.

Why don't you study up. There's plenty of evidence that this is an
ongoing problem for the mental health profession and there are many
facets to the argument. Some valid, some shaky, but all worth learning
about.

Then, Greg, DO something rather than sit on your lazy a.s pissing and
moaning to support your vicious and stupid attacks on CPS and people
that ARE doing something.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Percentage+of+foster+children+on+ritalin&bt
nG=Google+Search
http://tinyurl.com/r6a9a

Of course you will find some things you do not like, such as foster
children come into the system with a much higher rate of mental illness
than the general population of children. PARENT INDUCED, or genetic.

Logically this would make sense. They are more difficult to parent. If
the parent is an unstable mental case themselves more likely to result
in harm to the child.

Enjoy your studies. There will be a quiz, as usual:

Topics- Activism Budget Business Child Welfare Comm Dev Crim Just ...
The country's half-million children in foster care are more likely than
others to struggle with mental illness. A startling 84 percent of foster
kids have ...
www.citylimits.org/content/articles/articleView.cfm?articlenumber=1167 -
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ablechild
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Article: Ritalin:Facts all foster parents should know
Because Ritalin has proven to be moderately to markedly effective in 75
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    File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
    one percent of children treated with. Ritalin or other stimulants
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File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
http://www.mothering.com/articles/growing_child/education/ritalin-sham.html
... More than eighty percent of children in foster care have
developmental, ...
www.advocacycenter.org/documents/Handbook_on_Chemical_Restraint.pdf -
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Kane:
Did you ever speak out about how the
system was hooking kids on RITALEN
and similar psychotropics?

Wasn't THAT more truly an epidemic?

Some states stopped it.

Some have not yet stopped it and
the Ritalin insanity still goes on!

What percentage of foster kids are put on Ritalen?

Look it up.

Non sequitur

You don't know, can't prove it, but you sure can babble.

I don't know. Depends on how many boyfriends with a sex offender
registry requirement are living in or visiting the household. That's one
 of the most common reasons for "at risk," offenders of various kinds
that can and do present danger to children.

Their parents, of course, should be horsewhipped for allowing such
dangerous thugs to hang about, but what can you do, with in fact the
hanging about has to do with sharing drugs, selling drugs, and even
making drugs.

Why would an "at risk" child have to have had actual injuries to be at
risk? And who says they do not have or have had such injuries in the past?

In the ongoing attempt to rationalize and deny your own culpability in
Lisa and her daughter's case with the state of Iowa, by focusing on all
the stupid insinuating questions to vilify the state, yes, I'd had to
say "vicious questions" would be one of the more fitting labels for your
questions, Greg.

Why don't you answer your questions to prove they have merit and are
based on events and conditions?

You find a tiny percentage of anecdotal events that you repeat over and
over again attempting to discredit a massive total number of agencies
and people that work for them.

That's not proof of anything but that one or two people were corrupt or
inadequate to their tasks.

0:->

Of the removed children, what percentage
have been proven to have suffered blood,
broken bones or sexual abuse?

Certainly not the 40% portion the states
admit have been removed for NO REASON..

Certainly not the NEGLECT portion...

How big is the "AT RISK OF" portion?

And how many have had actual injuries?

These are vicious questions, no doubt.

the real drug epidemic in the united states isn't meth..............it
comes from abuse of alcohol, use of tobacco, and popping prescription
medications like candy.................

Hi, maggie,

Former and present foster children represent the most endangered population
in this country.

Child welfare experts contend that the only way to reduce the abuse in
foster care and the very poor outcomes for former foster children is to have
less foster care.  And reform movements are underway in many states and, on
the federal level, to place less children into state custody and release
foster children to their families earlier.

Currently, the vast majority of children removed from their families were
not abused.  69,000 of children placed in foster care in 2003 were removed
from families CPS workers themselves unsubstantiated for risk of or actual
neglect/abuse.  These non-victims represent 30% of the foster care
population.  The majority of those who were substantiated were found to be
at risk of neglect or neglected.  Of those children substantiated as victims
of abuse, the majority were substantiated because they were "at risk" of
abuse, not actually abused.

............. like welfare, foster care

The most vocal of foster care critics are professionals who are directly
involved with it.  Dr. Horn is one of the players in CPS reform efforts.

."there are no provisions for treatment, prevention,

The total cost of raising the child takes up about $14,000 of that.  Foster
children's medical, dental and mental health needs are covered by Medacaid.
The remaining $26,000 goes to principals and workers in the child welfare
industry itself.  Administrative costs are many times much higher than 2/3
of the funding going into foster care, although 66% is the general rule.
For each foster child, there is a battery of GALS, social service workers,
state caregivers, case managers, mentors, partridges, pear trees and the
trees in which they roost.

....................beyond abc's findings, the per annum cost per

....And pay for their college.

The overcrowded and abusive foster care system described by ABC news became
that way because of what the Pew Commission calls "the perverse funding
incentive" provided state CPS agencies to remove children from their
families.  Federal Title IV-E Social Security Funding currently flows to the
states on the basis of how many poor children CPS takes into custody.  As
long as the child stays in foster care, the state agencies pull down the
uncapped, on demand Title IV-E funding.

As the result of the Pew Commission report, Congress is currently at work to
remove the strings to Title IV-E funding.  The money will become a capped
entitlement to the states, allowing CPS agencies to decide for themselves
how to spend the money. This will cut the foster population by as much as
80% across the country.

The reform legislation, partially because of Dr. Wade's support, will soon
be passed by Congress.  This is the reform legislation the Organization of
American Counties and CPS attempted to defeat through a lobbying campaign
about the Meth "epidemic."

Meanwhile, individual states have reduced their foster care poplulation by
applying for and being granted exclusions from Title IV-E funding
restrictions.  California, Iowa and other states were just granted Title
IV-E waivers.  We can expect the state that harbors close to half of the
nation's foster children to reduce the population of state wards by 50% over
the next three years.  Mamouth reductions in foster care populations have
occurred in Illinois, Oregon and other states granted Title IV-E waivers in
the past.

It won't be long, now.

abc's primetime did a june 1 story on "the crisis of the foster care
system"..............among abc's conclusions were 52 percent of foster
children suffered from post-traumatic stress (a rate twice as high as
soldiers returning from war).............thirty percent of the homeless
have been in foster care............ twenty-five percent of those in
prison are foster care alumnus............. like welfare, foster care
is intergenerational (children growing up in foster care can become
mothers with children in foster care........... "the highest ranking
federal official in charge of foster care, wade horn of the department
of health and human services, is a former child psychologist who says
the foster care system is a giant mess and should just be blown
up"............."there are no provisions for treatment, prevention,
family support, or aging out - just for supporting things as they
are"..........that status quo costs taxpayers $22 billion a year and
works out to $40,000 a year to keep a child in foster
care....................beyond abc's findings, the per annum cost per
child in foster care would keep a child in a good boarding
school............